What's up, Pott-heads? Welcome to The Restricted Section. It's me, your girl, Christina. I'm fucking stoked to be here today presenting to you probably my favorite episode of this podcast of all time. I'm sorry that, until now, it's been on our Patreon bonus episode feed. I just had to share it with everyone because it is so fucking delightful (brag). Please get ready for . . . My Immortal! The legendary Harry Potter fanfiction by . . . someone. If you've never heard of this before, don't worry, because Haley does a great job of explaining it all. Just sit back, buckle up, and get ready for a fucking wild ride.
But before we do, huge shoutout to all of our Patreon supporters. They're the reason we're able to do—well, anything, first of all—but they're also the reason we do these really fun bonus episodes that cover a lot of the extra material in the Harry Potter universe. So huge shoutout to our Patreon supporters. Thank you so much for everything you do. Love you!
And last thing before we get started: just a content warning for pretty much everything (as user Alkeno says at that link: “everything, usually depression, suicide, self harm, drug use, depression, homophobia, transphobia, abuse of clothes from hot topic”). These subjects are discussed in a way that’s juvenile and it’s often quite funny, all framed in this very ridiculous context. You know us: we don't really get into it. But it's sort of hard to avoid all of the touchy subject matter. If you have any questions about the content before listening or reading, please feel free to reach out.
And now I present my favorite episode of anything ever: the Restricted Section’s take on what is widely regarded as the worst fanfic of all time, My Immortal.
Christina Kann 02:41
Welcome to a very special Restricted Section bonus episode--
Haley Simpkiss 02:54
AHEM! I'm Haley. And look at me. Look at me. Look at me. I am the host now. We're talking about My Immortal.
Christina Kann 03:06
God save us. There's some pretty ambient thunderstorms going on in the background, the doom and gloom. I think—oh my god, what is her name?
Haley Simpkiss 03:15
Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way? It's very goffick outside.
Christina Kann 03:22
Yes, it's gothic. I think Ebony would like it.
Brooke Matherly 03:25
It's Ebony, but it's not spelled correctly.
Christina Kann 03:28
Hey, wait, wait, stop. We have to introduce ourselves. That's Haley. She stole the show. Brooke, there you are. I'm glad you're here.
Brooke Matherly 03:38
Christina Kann 03:41
Is this a punishment? Is this a blessing? We are also delighted to be joined today by Zach, one of the cohosts of My Cabbages! Hello, Zach.
Zach of Cabbs 03:50
How's it going? Let's get drunk and talk about goth wizards.
Christina Kann 03:55
Before we get started, I do have a lined piece of paper laying on my desk in my official podcasting notebook, which is a thing that I have. And at the top, it just says "My Immortal Drinking Game," but the list is completely empty. So as things progress, we'll add to this drinking game.
Brooke Matherly 04:16
How bad do we want that drinking game to put people in terms of like, "Wow, this is fun and we're drunk!" to "You died two chapters in"?
Zach of Cabbs 04:26
The gradient we're going for is: by the end of this show, any passage read should cause everyone to continue drinking.
Haley Simpkiss 04:33
Don't worry too much about us, Brooke, because there's a lot to unpack here. Anytime you talk about My Immortal—widely regarded as the worst fanfiction ever written—there are three things you have to discuss. You obviously have to discuss the fic itself, which is a nightmare. But there's also a lot of lore, about 15 years' worth.
Zach of Cabbs 04:58
The anime is better.
Haley Simpkiss 05:02
Anything would be better than this, presumably. My Immortal came out in 2006-2007. There's a longstanding mystery bordering on full-blown conspiracy theory surrounding the authorship of this fanfiction. And then, of course, you have to discuss the ultimate question: Was this funny on purpose, or is it just bad? I'm just going to start with initial impressions. Do we think this is a troll? Yes or no?
Christina Kann 05:39
Zach of Cabbs 05:40
God, it's so hard. I feel like it's Tommy Wiseau’s career. It began in earnest, and once the person realized that writing bad was getting them attention, it became a troll as it went along. It's just so hard. I mean, I've never been a teen girl before, so maybe you all can shed some light on this.
Brooke Matherly 06:03
Harder than Draco's hypothetical cock.
Zach of Cabbs 06:08
His “boy thing.” Excuse you.
Brooke Matherly 06:10
Ugh. Haley, I have a question for you. You've read this multiple times, correct?
Haley Simpkiss 06:16
I will make a confession. I have trouble getting past Chapter 15 or 16 for reasons we'll discuss. At a certain point, it becomes physically difficult to read. I was made aware of My Immortal when it was still being updated back in the day, so I’ve been following this whole mystery surrounding it for this entire time. This fanfiction is my Lindbergh baby, and my soul will not rest until I know the truth.
Brooke Matherly 06:53
But in a perverted way, you would say you enjoy this? This fanfic?
Christina Kann 06:59
We do this all the time on Movie Night Crew. It's so bad that we had a good time. We were talking about Nicolas Cage before this started.
Brooke Matherly 07:05
No. No, no, no. The reason I'm asking Haley these questions is because you made me read this, and I don't want to ever fucking hear another word about Cats (2019) ever again in my goddamn life.
Haley Simpkiss 07:17
You consented, Brooke! You consented to do this bonus episode. I warned you.
Christina Kann 07:23
At some point, we have to stop talking about Cats (2019).
Haley Simpkiss 07:28
Again, I have never managed to read My Immortal all the way through. I just like that it exists. You guys didn't have to read it all the way through.
Christina Kann 07:37
I did read it all the way through.
Brooke Matherly 07:39
We will watch and listen to the first 10 songs of Cats (2019) on a semi-regular basis until you start enjoying it.
Haley Simpkiss 07:44
I'm just going to go ahead and read the first paragraph for you guys.
Christina Kann 07:48
Wait, I want to defend my impulsive “No.” This is not a troll. Two things. One: I've seen writing like this. I've seen actual people who wanted to become actual authors who write exactly like this, with this amount of care and attention.
Zach of Cabbs 08:02
Christina Kann 08:03
Absolutely. And two: I have been a teenage girl before, and while I don't fully understand the lengths to which these characters act, I could see something of myself in some of these choices. My 15-year-younger self.
Brooke Matherly 08:23
I don't think their writing style is too dissimilar for the age gap to the original 50 Shades of Grey when it was being posted online. Accounting for the supposed age of what I'm assuming is a late-middle-school girl versus a fully grown adult woman writing a Twilight fanfic, I think the writing style choices and gratuitous use of sex is completely the same between these two franchises.
Haley Simpkiss 08:54
Yep. So for the uninitiated, My Immortal is ostensibly a Harry Potter fanfiction.
Zach of Cabbs 09:03
There's a big quotation mark fingers around "Harry Potter fanfic."
Christina Kann 09:09
Wait, can I go ahead and make a rule? Let's drink every time we say “Harry Potter,” because I don't think it's gonna be a lot.
Haley Simpkiss 09:16
Well, his name is Vampire in this.
Christina Kann 09:18
Exactly. I think we should drink every time we say “Harry Potter.”
Zach of Cabbs 09:22
Thanks to Christina, I just had to take three drinks in a row.
Brooke Matherly 09:26
This felt like reading a teen version of Harriet Porber by Chuck Tingle for as much as it related to the actual Harry Potter series.
Christina Kann 09:33
Yeah, but that book was so well done.
Zach of Cabbs 09:35
There were so many times that I was reading a passage and felt like, if I was trying to write a purposefully bad thing for comedy, I would misspell this word this way, because I would find it funny. "Triumelephantly"? I mean, come on.
Christina Kann 09:50
Wait, Zack, that is so funny. I read literally all of this fanfic today, and every single error, I thought, "Someone could make this error," until I got to literally exactly the error you just read, and I was like "This is too good to be true."
Zach of Cabbs 10:05
“Triumelephantly.” There's no fucking possible way that it was was written in earnest
Christina Kann 10:09
Unless it was a very elaborate autocorrect failure, and the word "elephant" got in there somehow.
Zach of Cabbs 10:17
Are you saying Tara's spelling is just so awful that she's literally broken her spellchecker? Her spellchecker has been traumatized.
Brooke Matherly 10:25
I can also see it being somewhat intentional given the cutesy substitutions she makes in other aspects, where she'll say things like "fangs" instead of "thanks."
Haley Simpkiss 10:35
A lot of that is like leetspeak from back in the day.
Christina Kann 10:39
That kind of shit, like "fangs" instead of "thanks," is exactly something I would have done when I was younger. When I was in middle school, every time I wanted to say the word "and," I would drop two ampersands instead of saying "and." && it had to be two. That was my thing.
Brooke Matherly 10:51
I exclusively spelled "love" L-U-V for a very long time and contended it that was different from L-O-V-E, because L-O-V-E was romantic but L-U-V was for my friends and family.
Christina Kann 11:03
Zach of Cabbs 11:05
For a few years of my life, every time I said "anybody," I would say "anypony." I don't want to talk about it; let's just move on.
Haley Simpkiss 11:14
Zach of Cabbs 11:20
Let that float down the River Styx where it belongs.
Haley Simpkiss 11:24
Let's discuss the plot of My Immortal insofar as there is any kind of a plot in My Immortal. The main character is Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way.
Zach of Cabbs 11:36
She's Klingon. That's my headcanon. That's why there's an apostrophe.
Haley Simpkiss 11:40
Oh no, she's a vampire, a Slytherin, and a goth, and she goes to Hogwarts, kind of. But everyone at Hogwarts is also a goth and/or a vampire, but some of them are also posers. Voldemort tells her to kill Vampire Potter—Harry has changed his name.
Christina Kann 12:03
We have to drink. You said "Harry" and "Potter."
Zach of Cabbs 12:05
In the same sentence, that counts.
Haley Simpkiss 12:07
Harry Potter has changed his name to Vampire Potter, and his scar is now a pentagram.
Christina Kann 12:13
I think we should drink every time we say "pentagram."
Zach of Cabbs 12:15
You're trying to kill us this early?
Brooke Matherly 12:18
I mean, if we're really trying to die, just how about every time we say the word "black"?
Zach of Cabbs 12:24
Brooke Matherly 12:25
Oh, for sure at least a sip for every time someone's outfit is described.
Haley Simpkiss 12:32
Those are the most coherent parts!
Christina Kann 12:37
They were so lucid writing those outfit descriptions.
Brooke Matherly 12:39
It's a complete tonal change.
Haley Simpkiss 12:41
It’s true. The whole thing is completely impenetrable. There's time travel. Marty McFly turns up at one point. Nothing makes sense. All of the adults are pedophiles for some reason. But anytime she's describing her outfit, it is in lovingly crafted detail. If you have not read this somehow, I just want to give you guys a taste of what the style is. I'm just going to read the first paragraph.
Hi my name is Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that’s how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don’t know who she is get da hell out of here!). I’m not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he’s a major fucking hottie. I’m a vampire but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I’m also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I’m in the seventh year (I’m seventeen). I’m a goth (in case you couldn’t tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them.
Haley Simpkiss 14:29
The whole thing is like that.
Christina Kann 14:31
When you said it was raining and there was no sun, thunder clapped outside.
Zach of Cabbs 14:38
Oh my god. There's definitely thunder rolling in my part of town right now.
Haley Simpkiss 14:47
We are obviously going to discuss the fic itself. We're gonna get into it, but it's going to get very chaotic very fast.
Christina Kann 15:06
Haley, you're so hot when you present a subject you're obsessed with. You're at your best right now.
Haley Simpkiss 15:14
Allow me to info dump. *pulls out many index cards*
Zach of Cabbs 15:15
*gasp* Those are note cards.
Haley Simpkiss 15:17
Yes, they are.
Zach of Cabbs 15:18
Folks, Haley has prepared a presentation that we are all about to be graced with.
Christina Kann 15:25
She's fanning her index cards.
Zach of Cabbs 15:27
I feel like Spongebob in the episode where he's eating his own arms when Squidward's describing the Hash-Slinging Slasher.
Haley Simpkiss 15:38
Let's just start with the facts. My Immortal was uploaded to fanfiction.net in 2006-2007. It was published by an author called xxxbloodyrists666xxx, aka Tara Gillespie. It is 22,700 words, insofar as we can call any of these words.
Zach of Cabbs 16:05
What do you count as a word?
Haley Simpkiss 16:08
Philosophical question. There are 44 chapters, but Chapter 39 was apparently written by a hacker. The fanfiction was deleted in 2008, and the account was likely hacked not long after in 2009. An attempt was made to "recover" the account, which may also have been a hacker. There is a supposed sequel called My Immortal 2: Wake Me Up Inside, which is another Evanescence reference.
Christina Kann 16:38
They're all Evanescence references.
Haley Simpkiss 16:39
This has since been proven to have been written by a troll who was assuming the original author’s identity.
Zach of Cabbs 16:46
But honestly, if you don't know who Amy Lee is, like, get the fuck out of here.
Haley Simpkiss 16:50
Get da hell out of here.
Brooke Matherly 16:51
I once did a rendition of "My Immortal" at a Girl Scout talent show.
Zach of Cabbs 16:59
Oh my god.
Brooke Matherly 17:00
Here's the problem. We're not talking about a presentation for friends and family. We're talking about Alex, the other 12 people in our Girl Scout troop, and me just soulfully belting out a bad rendition of "My Immortal," after which my troop leader took me to the side and asked me if I was okay.
Haley Simpkiss 17:23
That song was a big one for me after the divorce, I gotta say.
Christina Kann 17:27
Okay, we all have trauma memories from Girl Scout camp.
Zach of Cabbs 17:32
Yeah, that one time I accidentally went to Girl Scout camp was really traumatic for me too. I was like, "I'm not supposed to be here!"
Christina Kann 17:38
I personally fell off the zipline at Girl Scout camp and realized I was fat, and I also got my first period at Girl Scout camp!
Brooke Matherly 17:48
This was a weekend sleepover in a clubhouse next to a pool.
Zach of Cabbs 17:53
My Immortal would totally make a great campfire sketch, though.
Christina Kann 17:59
Did any of y'all listen to Evanescence earnestly when they were cool?
Christina Kann 18:06
Yeah, my whole family was into Evanescence. My parents thought it was very dope.
Haley Simpkiss 18:10
It was very good for AMVs, I will say.
Zach of Cabbs 18:12
Peak aughts entertainment right there, Evanescence AMVs. Classic.
Christina Kann 18:17
What are you saying? AMVs?
Haley Simpkiss 18:18
Anime music videos. People would take animes and make music videos.
Zach of Cabbs 18:23
I used to do it on Windows Movie Maker. I remember those days.
Brooke Matherly 18:28
I thought I had a nerdy childhood, but every now and then I'm having a conversation with Haley, and I'm like, "Oh, no. There was a divide there."
Haley Simpkiss 18:43
Yeah there was! There was, Brooke!
Brooke Matherly 18:46
There's a degree of severity there.
Haley Simpkiss 18:49
You and me, we're not the same! We've matured, it's fine. Let's briefly discuss Tara Gillespie.
Zach of Cabbs 18:57
What we know so far.
Christina Kann 19:00
The accused author.
Zach of Cabbs 19:03
Order in the court!
Haley Simpkiss 19:05
First of all, this person had accounts and was active on them across multiple platforms at the time of writing. She had a Deviantart; I think she was on Gaia and shit. So this wasn't an isolated thing. If this was a troll, this was somebody who had really dedicated themselves to crafting this online identity.
Christina Kann 19:23
Honestly, drink every time we say "troll."
Zach of Cabbs 19:26
Are you adding all these things to the list as you're going?
Christina Kann 19:28
Yeah, right now we have to drink every time we say "Harry Potter," "pentagram," or "troll," or when there’s an outfit description.
Haley Simpkiss 19:38
She refers to Tom Riddle a couple times as Tom Bombadil.
Christina Kann 19:45
That was my favorite part, actually.
Zach of Cabbs 19:49
Is he hot?
Haley Simpkiss 19:53
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Apparently when they go back in time he is. His name is Tom Satan Bombadil. But also, this doesn't seem like a kid who would be aware of Tom Bombadil's existence, what with him only being in the Lord of the Rings books. So the plot thickens.
Brooke Matherly 20:11
There was crossover nerd culture in that time period between Lord of the Rings and everything else that was going on.
Haley Simpkiss 20:25
But it was mostly the films, especially for the shallow teenage girl audience.
Brooke Matherly 20:30
Right, but for the angsty goth kids it was knowing the books over the films, so I do think that's where a specific reference that was not in the films would tie in with this, quite frankly.
Zach of Cabbs 20:44
How much of the misinterpretation of the characters are completely rewritten versus just the person being ignorant of it? A lot of the Slytherin changes were obvious, but Hagrid being a student was weird.
Haley Simpkiss 21:02
There are author's notes through the whole thing. This was a big thing on fanfictions at this time.
Christina Kann 21:12
Reading those was like watching Secret Window, where the writer finds out that it was himself all along or whatever. Spoiler alerts for Secret Window!
Haley Simpkiss 21:18
The author's notes are the fucking B plot, because that's what gave us the lore! That's where all of the clues we have come from!
Christina Kann 21:26
What's going on with Raven???
Haley Simpkiss 21:27
Yeah, what is going on with Raven???
Zach of Cabbs 21:30
It’s like the annotations in Lord of the Rings. People are like, "You didn't read the annotations? You didn't read the books!"
Haley Simpkiss 21:35
In the author's notes a couple times, she's like, "I didn't read da book! Stop telling me Hagrid's not a student!" She's just decided he is now.
Brooke Matherly 21:44
She makes a specific reference to finding the way that he interacts with them creepy, and she says she's making Hagrid a student to showcase how weird his interactions with these students are, which quite frankly, Tara, I stand behind.
Zach of Cabbs 22:00
All right, Tara. Tara, surprising little pocket of wokeness there.
Haley Simpkiss 22:06
And Dumbledore only called them "motherfukers" because he had a headache. I'm going to bring that up every time his character appears. She mentions being from somewhere called Dubya in the very last chapter. Theories as to what this might be include Dubai, Dublin, or just a state or town starting with the letter W.
Zach of Cabbs 22:31
She's from Western Texas or something.
Haley Simpkiss 22:34
I want to say Wisconsin; I feel in my soul that it's gotta be Wisconsin.
Brooke Matherly 22:39
Maybe it's just our general proximity, but I saw Dubya and thought Washington DC.
Haley Simpkiss 22:47
She claimed to have gone on vacation to Transylvania and seen the castle where Dracula was filmed. The castle where Dracula was filmed is in California, I believe. There's a castle in Transylvania that supposedly inspired Bram Stoker, but also, did she actually go to Transylvania? Who's to say?
Zach of Cabbs 23:05
Putting Transylvania in your author's note was the 2008 equivalent of photoshopping a vacation photo on Instagram.
Haley Simpkiss 23:13
One of the biggest mysteries is her co-author/beta reader, nicknamed Raven aka bloodytearz666. She is the character Willow in the series. She peaced out around Chapter 15 after Tara and Raven had a falling out over a sweater. The character of Willow was subsequently expelled and murdered, and her corpse was violated by "Loopin"—again, all of the characters are pedophiles, and apparently in this case, also necrophiliacs—and was later brought back with zero explanation. So I’m not sure what happened there. But that's around the point where the text becomes 100% unreadable, which is why I have trouble getting past Chapter 16. There's nothing even resembling a sense of coherency after there.
Haley Simpkiss 23:43
So that's what we know. I'm going to try real fast to get through the people who, over the years, have either been theorized to be Tara or have claimed to be Tara. The first are the Acid Bath Sisters. In 2009, a YouTube channel featuring two teenage mall goths called Tara and Raven blew up because it featured two cringey teenage girls singing along to MCR and talking about how much they hated preps.
Christina Kann 24:49
This is what I told you I was watching. I told Haley I was in too deep, and she literally was like, "Honestly bitch, you have no idea what ‘in too deep’ is."
Zach of Cabbs 24:57
There is an iceberg here. There's a My Immortal iceberg here.
Haley Simpkiss 25:03
Oh, we're diving deep, guys.
Zach of Cabbs 25:06
Here we go.
Christina Kann 25:07
These videos were, yes, very, very, can confirm, very cringey singalongs. A good time.
Haley Simpkiss 25:16
For years, people just assumed. "Well, it's gotta be them! It's Tara and Raven! They talk about preps all the time. They're goths! I still can't tell if it's a joke, but there's no way it's not them." But they never mentioned the fic. They never really talked about Harry Potter at all. That seemed kind of weird to people. Around 2014, Tara resurfaced on the internet. People recognize her, and subsequently she is interviewed and reveals that Raven in those videos was her sister. Their real names were Sarah and Rachel. They had been cringey mall goths in middle school. At the point where they were making the videos, they'd stopped being that way. So the videos were them making fun of their younger selves.
Brooke Matherly 26:09
Yeah, there are no middle-aged to elderly mall goths. That's a thing everybody grows out of. You're not allowed to grow old as a mall goth.
Christina Kann 26:20
I feel like you have to move from the mall to Costco or something, and it's not as good anymore.
Brooke Matherly 26:24
You have to find a place that still has a mall, and that mall has to have a Hot Topic. It's a high bar to clear.
Zach of Cabbs 26:31
Hi, folks, from the future. Malls don't really exist anymore. That's something that was never expected in 2005, huh?
Haley Simpkiss 26:40
It was 2009 when they were making these videos, so they would have still been in high school. In 2014, people recognized her and said, "Holy shit. It's that girl. Were you the My Immortal bitch?" And she was like, "No, we honestly didn't even know that My Immortal existed when we made those videos." So that was debunked.
Haley Simpkiss 26:59
This is the big one, the Rose Christo debacle. Rose Christo "confessed" to authorship quietly on Tumblr in early 2017, but she didn't have that much of a following. It didn't really gain any traction; no one noticed.
A couple months later, a book called The Handbook for Mortals, a self-published YA novel, somehow hits the New York Times bestseller list—which is weird, because no one seems to have read it. So this becomes a huge mystery. A couple people actually buy it to see what's going on, and the book is so flagrantly terrible that readers started speculating that maybe this was the author of My Immortal. The author of this book, Lani Sarem, might be Tara.
Brooke Matherly 27:43
Publisher nerd note: Who published that book?
Haley Simpkiss 27:46
She self-published it, and it made it onto the New York Times bestseller list. As it turned out, she was calling around to bookstores who report their sales to the Times and buying huge bulk orders of her own book from them. That's a thing you can do. It's gaming the system.
Christina Kann 28:05
Oh, that's brilliant!
Zach of Cabbs 28:08
You all are in books; I'm in games. A few years ago, Steam opened up its restrictions. You no longer have to get your game greenlit by the community; anybody can just publish on Steam. You just put in the paperwork and pay the money, and boom, you're on Steam. So there are hundreds, if not thousands, of garbage games released on the platform literally every day, and it's impossible to find anything decent. Is it like that at all in the book industry?
Haley Simpkiss 28:35
Well, self-publishing. Yeah.
Christina Kann 28:38
There are a lot of bad books, but I don't think it's ever hard to find the good ones.
Brooke Matherly 28:43
I think that's only true if you're just casting randomly through Amazon. If you type "books" into the Amazon search bar, you may end up in that scenario.
Zach of Cabbs 28:53
Don't sort books by New > All? Is that what you're saying?
Christina Kann 28:56
I'm going to take this opportunity to plug Storygraph again. I find out what books are good by turning to my peers and seeing what they have said.
Zach of Cabbs 29:10
*Zach’s power cuts off*
Christina Kann 29:11
Oh my god.
Zach of Cabbs 29:12
I lost power.
Haley Simpkiss 29:13
Christina Kann 29:16
That's very dramatic.
Zach of Cabbs 29:18
It's not coming back!
Christina Kann 29:19
We might lose you. That would be very goffick.
*Zach’s power comes back*
Zach of Cabbs 29:22
Okay, it's back. It's back for now. It should be okay.
Christina Kann 29:28
Brooke Matherly 29:30
Zach of Cabbs 29:31
I was about to light a candle and say, "Play me off like I'm on the Titanic!" But please continue. I'm riveted.
Haley Simpkiss 29:39
People start thinking Lani Sarem might be Tara Gillespie.
Christina Kann 29:43
Haley Simpkiss 29:44
Lani Sarem is the person who wrote Handbook for Mortals, which made it onto the New York Times Bestseller list. It was so bad that people thought maybe this is Tara Gillespie.
At this point, Rose Christo, who is also a self-published YA author, comes forward and says, "No, it's not her. It's me!" Also, she announces in this refutation that her tell-all memoir is being published by Macmillan. She has provided evidence to them; she has a flash drive with the first 11 unedited chapters.
Brooke Matherly 30:20
Wait, wait, wait, that was a bombshell. There was editing done to this?
Haley Simpkiss 30:24
Yeah, that's what Raven was doing!
Zach of Cabbs 30:28
That's why the first 15 chapters are at all legible.
Christina Kann 30:31
That's the thing! There wasn't just one of these people. There were two of them making this happen.
Zach of Cabbs 30:38
This is like My Favorite Murder but for fanfiction.
Haley Simpkiss 30:42
That's what it feels like! The reason Rose Christo is writing this memoir about writing My Immortal is because she claims that she is a Native American Cree childhood sexual abuse survivor, who wrote My Immortal as part of an effort to find the younger brother who she’d lost in the foster care system. How, you might ask?
Christina Kann 31:09
Brooke Matherly 31:10
Wait wait wait. She wrote My Immortal to find the brother, or she wrote her memoir to find him?
Haley Simpkiss 31:16
She wrote My Immortal looking for her brother.
Zach of Cabbs 31:19
There's that one part in Chapter 5 where she goes, "Hey, I have a brother. His name is Andrew. I really want to find him. Please dial this number if you've seen him!" I remember it like it was yesterday. It was only part of the book that made any sense.
Haley Simpkiss 31:31
You guys didn't catch that one line?
Zach of Cabbs 31:35
You gotta read between the lines. Subtext.
Haley Simpkiss 31:38
A couple of weeks later, someone contacts a Kiwi Farms forum that is dedicated to debunking stuff—admittedly, it's a pretty shady forum—claiming to be said brother. He apparently provided proof to the mods sufficient for them to believe that he was the brother. He claimed that not only had he and his sister never been in the foster care system, but they were white as hell.
Christina Kann 32:03
That's not surprising.
Haley Simpkiss 32:05
Yeah, because everything about that story sounded like it was specially crafted to gain as much unquestioning support from the user base of Tumblr in 2017 as humanly possible. She loses the book deal, obviously. Here's the thing, though: The brother did say that, as a teenager, she liked making fun of bad fanfiction, and she also liked to go by Tara. So she might have honestly been the author.
Zach of Cabbs 32:38
Brooke Matherly 32:38
But in that scenario, we would be assuming that she was doing this as a joke.
Haley Simpkiss 32:43
Brooke Matherly 32:44
This would be a troll scenario. I said "troll"; you all drink.
Christina Kann 32:48
Oh, Brooke, no.
Brooke Matherly 32:51
I don't drink alcohol, for the listeners at home. So...
Christina Kann 32:54
I told her to have water ready.
Haley Simpkiss 32:56
Christina Kann 32:56
You're gonna be so hydrated, bitch.
Zach of Cabbs 32:58
You're gonna be like, "Tina I need a break! I need to pee!"
Haley Simpkiss 33:00
I am going to need a new drink soon. While the court documents she provided to Macmillan to prove the whole foster care story were proven indeed to be photoshopped, nothing could really be proven one way or the other about the flash drive. It was clearly a flash drive from 2006, but was the file on there legitimate? Who's to say? I actually looked on Rose Christo's Amazon page as part of the deep dive I did on this, and her bio has been updated, basically saying, "Hey, so a lot of people over the last few years have been asking me ‘What happened?’ And ‘Are you okay?’ And I'm just popping in here to say a couple years ago, I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, which probably comes as no surprise to the people in my life, but now that I'm medicated, yeah, that makes sense. So I'm sorry about everything. And I am going to be keeping out of the public eye from now on." Here's the thing though: she doesn't confirm one way or the other whether she wrote it!!!
Brooke Matherly 34:05
Wait, wait, wait, hold on. If she was faking this, and she had 11 unedited chapters on a thumb drive, we are to assume that in pursuit of an elaborate ruse, she took the first 11 chapters of My Immortal, went in, and made it intentionally shittier?
Zach of Cabbs 34:27
Added passages about her clothing choices into the novel. "In addition to this, I was also wearing..."
Brooke Matherly 34:38
That was an outfit description, and you guys have to drink.
Zach of Cabbs 34:40
Oh, shit. Yeah, you're right, fuck!
Christina Kann 34:41
Thank you so much, Brooke. Love you, babe. I really appreciate it.
Brooke Matherly 34:44
I'm here for you.
Zach of Cabbs 34:46
I think you're onto something there, because that feels like an Occam's razor situation. It has to be the simpler thing. It doesn't even feel like she was a Harry Potter fan. She just watched Harry Potter and thought Daniel Radcliffe and Malfoy were hot, and she was like, "I'm gonna write a fanfic where I get to date both of them!"
Brooke Matherly 35:10
Here's how I know she was young: at no point was she like, "The obvious answer to this scenario is a threesome." She's like, "I guess I have to do both of them at the same time?"
Zach of Cabbs 35:21
"Well, they have to fight over me!"
Haley Simpkiss 35:23
Also everyone except her is bi, but also she's super homophobic. I am going to get another drink because the last one is an honorable mention, but it is weird.
Zach of Cabbs 35:34
The character says she's bi, anyway, at multiple points.
Brooke Matherly 35:40
I kept going, thinking, "Surely this ends in a threesome." They got so close with the sex tape scenario, and then it just didn't happen. You can take two dicks at once. It's nice. I highly recommend it.
Zach of Cabbs 35:55
It feels like the culmination of all of this would be that. You write the first 30 chapters so you can write the double dickin' scene, and that never happens. It's anticlimactic.
Christina Kann 36:08
Haley, what are you drinking?
Haley Simpkiss 36:09
What do you think?
Christina Kann 36:11
Zach of Cabbs 36:14
I'm just drinking margarita mix and a lot of tequila.
Christina Kann 36:18
That's called a margarita, my man.
Zach of Cabbs 36:19
It is called a margarita, but it's in a very unsexy non-margarita mug.
Christina Kann 36:24
I'm drinking Winking Owl brand chardonnay. That's $2.74, I think, per bottle.
Zach of Cabbs 36:32
The size of the mug that this is in makes it look like I have a problem.
Brooke Matherly 36:37
You look like an alcoholic teacher right now.
Zach of Cabbs 36:41
Shut up! I got these papers to grade! I ain't got time for this shit.
Brooke Matherly 36:45
You look like you showed up to your class, kicked your feet up on the desk, and were like, "Look, kids, American history is bullshit."
Zach of Cabbs 36:52
I was like Jack Black in School of Rock, just like, "Oh god, who's got food?"
Haley Simpkiss 37:01
All right, last one.
Christina Kann 37:03
Where are we?
Haley Simpkiss 37:03
We are on our honorable mention.
Zach of Cabbs 37:07
The season three finale of the anime! Pay attention.
Haley Simpkiss 37:12
One of the resources I looked to during this was a YouTuber called Sarah Z, who a little over a year ago made a video talking about the whole Rose Christo thing and also the Acid Bath Sisters and the whole mystery.
Zach of Cabbs 37:26
Big shout out to Sarah Z. She has several videos on Homestuck that are incredibly cool.
Haley Simpkiss 37:35
I have never gotten into Homestuck, and I am scared.
Zach of Cabbs 37:44
Neither have I, but the people who tried to make the Homestuck game threatened her with legal action because of the journalism she did on the game. It's a crazy story. Anyway, check out Sarah Z. She's great.
Haley Simpkiss 37:52
Apparently this happens to her a lot, because not long after she posted that video, someone contacted her claiming to be the author and calling himself Todd Gillespie. He had some answers to some of her questions, but he consistently ducked a lot of timeline and account access questions. Sarah Z started looking deeper and got involved with another YouTuber, Red Bard. They got together and did some In True Blood shit. I won't get into the full details, but you guys can watch here if you have two free hours. Their digging revealed a whole mess involving Bible fanfiction—which is a thing—as well as over 20 sock puppet identities Todd had used to troll himself over the last couple of decades, plus a recurring character named Gareth Vandersweld.
Zach of Cabbs 37:56
Anybody who spends that much time fucking with people on the internet is trolling themselves. Let's be honest.
Haley Simpkiss 39:07
Every fandom community that he's in is like 90% just him.
Brooke Matherly 39:13
The thing that keeps coming up with all of these supposed authors is that mental illness has always existed, and one of the dark things about the internet is that it's become a form of entertainment, where we follow these people who are obviously not doing well, and they can garner attention and some sort of satisfaction by giving in completely to whatever it is that is ailing them instead of taking active steps to better their lives.
Christina Kann 39:47
Haley Simpkiss 39:48
Yeah, you're absolutely right. That's kind of how that video ends, after she found out this was all the same dude. It's Todd all the way down.
Zach of Cabbs 39:59
Well, that's it for the podcast, everybody. We'll see you next time.
Brooke Matherly 40:03
Thank you for joining us for this very special episode.
Haley Simpkiss 40:06
He is definitely not the author, but he is probably the person who hacked the account in 2008 after it was deleted, and he might have even been the person to delete it. They found him; they did not give his information away, but they did find him. In real life, he is apparently a 28-year-old musician from New Zealand. A lot of people have claimed to be the author over the years; he's at least two of them.
Brooke Matherly 40:33
Whoa, wait, who was the second one?
Zach of Cabbs 40:36
Too late. We're moving on!
Haley Simpkiss 40:37
He claimed it in 2008 around the time of the account hacking, and I think he did it again in 2011, but nobody paid attention. Now people have started talking about My Immortal again, particularly Sarah Z and her video. It sounds like he's trying to hop on that bandwagon. So yeah, that's Todd.
Christina Kann 40:55
I see. That's so much lore, honestly.
Haley Simpkiss 40:59
Yeah, there's a lot!
Zach of Cabbs 41:00
Yeah, it's a dump. Like Haley was saying, the Sarah Z videos, which I highly recommend, are extremely informative. Even if you've never heard of this fanfic, by the end, you will be sitting there riveted, saying, "I need to know!"
Haley Simpkiss 41:14
Yep. That's an overview of the lore as short and sweet as I could possibly make it.
Christina Kann 41:21
And well done.
Haley Simpkiss 41:21
Thank you. I'm really sorry, guys. But now you know.
Christina Kann 41:24
Thank you for taking us on this ride.
Haley Simpkiss 41:27
You're very welcome. So let's talk the story. Insofar as there's a story.
Zach of Cabbs 41:33
There's a story? I'm sorry. You said a story?
Haley Simpkiss 41:36
Let's talk the string of events.
Zach of Cabbs 41:40
I want to start by saying that I have gotten a lot of unironic enjoyment out of this fanfic over the years. In college, I would gather a crowd of 8 to 10 people in the common room of my Hogwarts house, as it were, the common areas of the campus, just gathering a crowd doing a dramatic reading of My Immortal off my laptop. Very fun memories that I have from this truly awful, awful, awful fanfiction.
Christina Kann 42:08
Haley, you first presented this to me with a similar little story about reading it with Willow and Emma, right?
Haley Simpkiss 42:16
Yes, I think it was Willow who told me about it because she used to lovingly make fun of me for reading fanfiction.
Christina Kann 42:25
But this one has a character named Willow, so she had to check it out.
Brooke Matherly 42:28
Important distinction for the listeners: We're talking about Haley's sister, not the infamous character who gets written off unceremoniously.
Zach of Cabbs 42:37
I'm here to announce my new secret sleeper podcast, The Rejected Section, where we read one chapter of My Immortal each week until it is over.
Brooke Matherly 42:49
And then you start again, because it's fucking immortal.
Zach of Cabbs 42:53
That should be the title of the episode, The Rejected Section.
Brooke Matherly 42:58
No, seriously, what if you did that? You just kept doing it over and every time you got to the end, you just started back at the beginning and kept doing it until you went insane.
Haley Simpkiss 43:06
Brooke, that sounds exactly as pathological as Todd!
Zach of Cabbs 43:13
There's a podcast called The Worst Idea of All Time where they watched Grown Ups 2 over and over again every week for a year, and they slowly descend into madness because it's such a nothing movie.
Haley Simpkiss 43:32
To what end?
Brooke Matherly 43:33
Haley, Haley, Haley, Haley, excuse you. You just read roughly 45 minutes of My Immortal lore off notecards. You don't get to make that concerned face at the fact that someone made a decent podcast.
Christina Kann 43:45
Here's how I took notes for this episode: I put the text into a Google Doc and just started highlighting stuff. So I'm just gonna start scrolling on through. I highlighted some stuff that we've mentioned already. We've mentioned a lot of things.
Zach of Cabbs 43:58
The way I took notes was I had the fic open in a separate window, and I was listening to the Internet Historian do a dramatic reading of it.
Brooke Matherly 44:06
I did the same thing!
Zach of Cabbs 44:08
Every time he made me laugh, I would pause it and go to that section and copy and paste it into a notepad.
Brooke Matherly 44:14
I listened to the Internet Historian's dramatic reading of this "work" as well. It's worth a watch. I would say it's the preferred way to experience this. I couldn't make it far reading it. My brain wouldn't relax enough to just take the words in. When you're reading, you're not reading every word. You look at words, and your brain's like, "We got it." Although I have heard that’s not the way everybody reads. Sorry. That's like a fun psychology thing.
Christina Kann 44:56
We have been known to be a little elitist about reading here.
Brooke Matherly 45:01
No, there are two ways people process the concept of reading. Some people actually take in every single word, and then some people can visually scan a sentence and their brain just kind of downloads the information. I've read a couple of psychological studies about this. The way you read determines a lot about the way you speak and the way you take in information. It's not even an elitist thing. My husband, for example, is also a very avid reader, but he reads every single word when he's reading.
Zach of Cabbs 45:38
But y'all are in publication. So this is almost like Icarus flying too close to the sun for you. It's like, "I can't look directly at it, or I will hurt my eyes."
Brooke Matherly 45:50
I tried reading it, and my brain just couldn't get to the point where I stopped seeing every individual word. And when I was looking at every individual word, it made even less sense. It wasn't even coming together at all. I was just like, "Da—cuz—fangs. What is—fucking—black. Black, black, black, black."
Haley Simpkiss 46:13
The idea of a codified language where every word is spelled the same every single time you write it is kind of a new concept. If you read old medieval manuscripts, people just wrote shit out phonetically. Most people didn't read in their heads; most people read out loud, if they were going to read, or at least moved their lips. So you were following along anyway like this.
Brooke Matherly 46:41
But this is not phonetic. This does follow a codified language that existed on the internet in certain communities in the early 2000s.
Zach of Cabbs 46:50
Are you saying Tara was raised by wolves or something?
Brooke Matherly 46:55
I think Tara was born in the storeroom of a Hot Topic and then crawled out fully formed in a corset.
Haley Simpkiss 47:03
I think that Tara, whoever she was, was born into a relatively Christian, normie-ass household and really resented it. She wanted to be a cool, sexy goth and rebel against everything her family was doing, but she had no resources for it. So she was just like, "I'm just going to put everything that I think is cool in here. This is what goths do."
Brooke Matherly 47:31
The thing that really hits me about this entire thing is the outfit descriptions, which we've already touched on. I really want to break this down for a second. Haley, could you just do a brief reading of just an outfit? I know we kind of did at the beginning. But does anyone have one bookmarked?
Christina Kann 47:39
Zach of Cabbs 47:51
After the fifth or sixth one, the Internet Historian just fast forwards through them. It's really funny.
Haley Simpkiss 47:55
I've got one from chapter two.
I got out of my coffin and took of my giant MCR t-shirt which I used for pajamas. Instead, I put on a black leather dress, a pentagram necklace, combat boots and black fishnets on. I put on four pairs of earrings in my pierced ears, and put my hair in a kind of messy bun.
Brooke Matherly 48:18
When I was first writing as a child, I was not into goth culture, but this is exactly what my descriptions of characters read like 100% of the time. The most important thing the reader needs to know is exactly what this dress looks like.
Zach of Cabbs 48:36
If they don't know, how will they picture my character? They'll have no clothes on! That's awkward.
Haley Simpkiss 48:40
That is something that's important to examine about My Immortal. Why is this considered the worst fanfiction ever? Obviously, that's hyperbole, but I've read a lot of pretty bad fanfiction, and the thing that makes this one stand out is that it's textbook. Every single thing that could ever make a fanfiction bad is in this.
Zach of Cabbs 49:03
Literally all the awful tropes are here.
Haley Simpkiss 49:05
For example, the fact that it has basically nothing to do with the original story and none of the characters have any resemblance to their actual characters.
Zach of Cabbs 49:15
I think deeper than that, it shows a profound disrespect for the source material. It simply does not care about the source material. It doesn't value it; it doesn't find any enjoyment in it. It needs to rearrange all of it to make it palatable to the author. That's the bad taste it puts in everyone's mouth.
Brooke Matherly 49:35
There’s also the outfit descriptions, especially the fact that every single person is wearing a band t-shirt almost always.
Christina Kann 49:43
It's one of my favorite things about this.
Zach of Cabbs 49:44
I love going to those Hogsmeade MCR concerts, hell yeah!
Brooke Matherly 49:48
This immediately flashed me back to when my very first girlfriend wanted a Cradle of Filth t-shirt for her birthday. This was my first significant other, and I was very, very hell-bent on getting this right. I got to Hot Topic—because of course—and there were three Cradle of Filth t-shirts. I had literally never listened to Cradle of Filth in my life. I didn't know metal music at all. This Hot Topic employee was asking me questions about my girlfriend, and I was trying to explain what was going on so I could select the correct one. In the end, I got the wrong album cover, and she let me know that. She still wore the t-shirt; she still thought it was really cool to have; whatever, she was still excited.
Zach of Cabbs 50:45
I 100% would have just gotten the one I thought looked the coolest.
Brooke Matherly 50:49
They all looked like garbage to me. They all looked like a baby puke with red lettering.
Zach of Cabbs 50:54
Oh, I can picture it. My mind went right to what you're talking about.
Haley Simpkiss 50:58
But also, Hot Topic employees do be that way. They will try to help you.
Brooke Matherly 51:04
They'll absolutely try to help you. The person who was talking to me was literally just like, "Okay, what albums does she have in the car? What do the covers look like? Does any of this imagery look familiar to you?" And I was looking at the Hot Topic wall of band t-shirts, and I was just like, "Everything's blank. Everything's blank."
Haley Simpkiss 51:23
"All of them look like barbed wire fences. I don't know!"
Zach of Cabbs 51:26
Every time I walked into a Hot Topic as a kid, I was like, "Am I gonna buy a t-shirt or are we gonna play laser tag? This is such a weird atmosphere. I don't understand it."
Haley Simpkiss 51:35
I miss old-school Hot Topic.
Brooke Matherly 51:37
I went in for—and this is another thing that got brought up in this fanfic—hair spray paint. You could temporarily change the color of your hair, and purple hair spray paint featured prominently in my young adult life. Now I'm old enough that I go pay $300 to get someone to permanently dye my hair purple, and that's the kind of character progression I've been on.
Zach of Cabbs 51:57
That's what they call an arc.
Christina Kann 52:04
I'm looking through my highlighted selections. I highlighted the first time the text casually mentioned, "And then I went and slit my wrists." I was like, "Woo, red alert!" but then you quickly get desensitized.
Brooke Matherly 52:16
There's a point where the author says, "I went to slit my wrist and party with Draco and Vampire in the common room." I thought, "Oh, wow, those things are not connected."
Christina Kann 52:31
Well, it's like the most goffick thing that you're a vampire, so you slit your wrists, and it doesn't even really do anything.
Brooke Matherly 52:41
There's a point where she does it and then she takes a straw and drinks from her own wrist.
Zach of Cabbs 52:46
Get it? Because vampires drink blood? That should be the way canonically a vampire turns into a zombie, by drinking their own blood.
Brooke Matherly 52:56
I like that and also I'm mad that this didn't feature at all in The Twilight Saga.
Haley Simpkiss 53:01
Apparently Tara, toward the end, was getting into Twilight.
Brooke Matherly 53:05
You can tell!
Haley Simpkiss 53:07
There's a similarly bad Twilight fanfiction out there that people think she might also have written.
Christina Kann 53:17
I seent it.
Haley Simpkiss 53:18
The three lines that my sisters and I still quote at each other to this day are:
Christina Kann 53:45
I can't stop laughing.
Zach of Cabbs 53:47
I would love to read three short paragraphs that I think encapsulate why so many people hate this fanfic so much. I think it is the perfect passage.
Haley Simpkiss 53:59
Go for it.
Zach of Cabbs 54:00
“Its so unfair!” I yielded. “Why can’t I just be ugly or plain like all da other girls and preps here except for B’loody Mary, because she’s not ugly or anything.”
“Why would you wanna be ugly? I don’t like the preps anyway. They are such fucking sluts.” answered Draco.
“Yeah but everyone is in love with me! Like Snape and Loopin took a video of me naked. Hargrid says he’s in love with me. Vampire likes me and now even Snaketail is in love with me! I just wanna be with you ok Draco! Why couldn’t Satan have made me less beautiful?” I shouted angrily. (an” don’t wory enoby isn’t a snob or anyfing but a lot of ppl hav told her shes pretty) “Im good at too many things! WHY CAN’T I JUST BE NORMAL? IT’S A FUCKING CURSE!” I shouted and then I ran away.
Christina Kann 54:54
Brooke Matherly 54:55
To me, that's an early Twilight bleed, quite frankly.
Christina Kann 54:59
Yes. You did highlight one thing I noted consistently throughout this. The dialogue tags are really, really, really hilarious.
Brooke Matherly 55:11
They read like someone who speaks English as a second language.
Christina Kann 55:15
And who has been told that stylistically you shouldn't use the word "said." Here's my next comment. They make a lot of fun of Hilary Duff in this. First of all, the book I'm reading right now was written by Hilary Duff, or at least conceptualized by Hilary Duff. Also, when I was 12 or 13 years old, my dad bought me Hilary Duff concert tickets for my birthday. It was right when I was just a little too edgy for that, Dad. But he got them for me, and he was really proud. So I took my friend Laney, who was even more goffick than me—I'm not even being funny, she really was. At the concert, Hilary Duff was wearing the same fishnet gloves that Laney was wearing, and Laney was like, "Fuck this!" and threw them down on the floor and stomped away.
Brooke Matherly 56:08
Guys, being a teenager is awful.
Haley Simpkiss 56:10
It really is. Zach read that whole thing, and that's the kind of line where you could very well hear that and think, "Okay, this is someone being ridiculous on purpose." But then you remember what being 13 was like, especially if you have the experience of being a 13-year-old girl. And it's not unbelievable.
Brooke Matherly 56:34
Especially being a 13-year-old girl during this phase in the culture. I dabbled on the edges of this entire aesthetic. I never went full in.
Zach of Cabbs 56:46
I was deep in the paint.
Brooke Matherly 56:49
Hold on. Did you do the just-back-of-the-head spiky? You know what I mean? Like the halo spike?
Haley Simpkiss 56:55
The Sasuke hair?
Christina Kann 56:56
That would look good on you, Zach!
Zach of Cabbs 56:57
Who, me? No. No, I was deep in the paint of nerdom, not gothicism.
Brooke Matherly 57:04
I was on the edge, the raw corners, of the mall goth aesthetic. I went to a lot of punk rock shows. I did a lot of mosh pits in my day. I went to Warped Tour.
Christina Kann 57:26
That is so cool.
Zach of Cabbs 57:28
I definitely was a post-hardcore brat, but I never really adopted the aesthetic myself. I was always a t-shirt and jeans guy.
Haley Simpkiss 57:37
I was always meant to be a t-shirt and jeans kind of person, but I did have a little bit of an emo phase in middle school/high school. My friends were all cooler and better at it and had parents who actually would buy them clothes from Hot Topic. It wasn't that my parents said, "Absolutely not. No, never." It was just expensive, and they didn't like going to the mall.
Brooke Matherly 58:04
I blame Hot Topic and this general time period for two things: Adult Twilight fans. The people who were adults at the time Twilight came out and were getting full back tattoos of Edward's eyes. Hot Topic went super hard on Twilight stuff when it first came out. And the other thing I blame it for is adult women who are way too into the Nightmare Before Christmas.
Christina Kann 58:30
Yeah. I'm with you on that one.
Brooke Matherly 58:33
There are a few things in this world that I consider to be true warning flag tattoos outside of your basic confederate flag bullshit. A full sleeve of Nightmare Before Christmas tells me exactly who you have been, who you are now, and where you are going.
Christina Kann 58:51
I feel like that's not even the first time you've brought this up on the show.
Brooke Matherly 58:54
It might not be. It's a deeply held belief of mine.
Haley Simpkiss 58:57
It is one of Enoby's favorite movies, right up there with Corpse Bride.
Brooke Matherly 59:03
Of course! Like, of course. Regarding the question of is it parody or is it real? Every last bit of this is stuff that makes you think, "Of course it's there. It makes sense that it's there. It makes sense that her favorite movie is Corpse Bride." That was 100% right for the time period. The My Chemical Romance t-shirts; even the fact that you would go and specifically get a really big one to sleep in. It was 100% a thing. All of this stuff is so perfectly fitted together with the actual way that it was that it either has to be a masterful troll--drink—or it has to be someone who was honestly doing this. I fall back every time on someone who was honestly doing this because I knew people who would have done this.
Zach of Cabbs 59:58
This is either someone who was briefly into this for a few years and did it in earnest, or an elaborate troll who has spent literally every day of the past decade fooling everyone into thinking that My Immortal is real.
Brooke Matherly 1:00:12
And I don't think it's worth that. You know what I mean? It would be different if there was any money involved, if there was any actual fame involved. If there was any way to spin it, I think someone would have spun it by now. Because if you can do this, there's a writing job on television for you somewhere. But I don't think that's what happened. I think this is genuine, and it was a very short-lived period in someone's life.
Christina Kann 1:00:38
I want to talk briefly about the way that sex is described in this.
Haley Simpkiss 1:00:43
Christina Kann 1:00:45
I have a selection highlighted.
Zach of Cabbs 1:00:46
Please read it.
Christina Kann 1:00:46
Then he put his thingie into my you-know-what and we did it for the first time.
And I think that's her losing her virginity.
Haley Simpkiss 1:00:47
Yeah. That's right before WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUKERS!
Christina Kann 1:00:54
Yeah, two lines in front of it. But that part, to me, makes it feel more authentic. I think that it was someone who was simply too young to be writing about sex but still was glorifying sex
Zach of Cabbs 1:01:13
A little bonus is that she forgot the second F so it sounds almost biblical.
He took of my clothes, and I took of my bra.
Brooke Matherly 1:01:26
Zach, since we were watching the same rendition of this, did you happen to highlight the part in the Internet Historian video of this where it's maybe the third time they have sex, when they're in Draco's car, and they're talking about his tool, and the Internet Historian does probably one of the funniest things that he does in this entire video. He has a drill going into a toolbox, and it just starts vibrating aggressively as the drill turns on.
Zach of Cabbs 1:01:56
I was listening to it while I was working, so I don't think I caught a lot of the visuals.
Brooke Matherly 1:02:00
Same. The imagery that the text is using is something around like tools and then like spinning around. That was a particularly strong sex image to me that sounded like someone who had been told by—back to Haley's point—incredibly conservative Christian parents what sex is, so that that base is covered, and you can tell them never to do it. You know what I mean? "He's gonna take his 'tool' and you have a 'toolbox.'"
Zach of Cabbs 1:02:42
"Listen, dicks??? They spin at 60 RPMs and they will tear you up! Don't do it!"
Brooke Matherly 1:02:50
The language of "his thing in my you-know-what" is like exactly like an awkward Christian mom trying to explain just enough about sex so that you know what it is enough to not do it.
Zach of Cabbs 1:03:02
"He put his hoo-ha and my heehee."
Christina Kann 1:03:05
Yes, the sex talk seemed very immature to me.
Brooke Matherly 1:03:08
Wait, one more note: my grandma the entire time we were growing up referred to them as "woozies" and "doozies."
Haley Simpkiss 1:03:14
Which was the woozy and which was the doozy?
Brooke Matherly 1:03:16
You know which one was the woozy and which one was the doozy. Think about it for a second.
Christina Kann 1:03:19
"Woo" for woman.
Zach of Cabbs 1:03:19
And "doozy" for "dick"!
Christina Kann 1:03:25
I can't emphasize this enough: teach children what body parts are called.
Haley Simpkiss 1:03:29
Zach of Cabbs 1:03:30
BDE: big doozy energy.
Haley Simpkiss 1:03:36
That's gonna be a t-shirt. We need to make that a t-shirt.
Christina Kann 1:03:40
Another thing I noticed throughout was the very funny disses that get thrown around.
Zach of Cabbs 1:03:47
They're also good.
Christina Kann 1:03:48
Right in front of me I have highlighted "you ludicrous fools" and "you mediocre dunces!"
Zach of Cabbs 1:03:53
I love "you mediocre dunces."
Brooke Matherly 1:03:55
Dunderhead? Dunderhead comes up a lot.
Zach of Cabbs 1:03:59
I'm surprised there wasn't some religion born out of "Let's decipher this fanfic and find out what the secret message is being told here."
Christina Kann 1:04:06
Is that not what we're doing right now?
Brooke Matherly 1:04:08
What if Tara was a prophet and this is the latest iteration of the Bible?
Haley Simpkiss 1:04:12
Christina Kann 1:04:15
Oh man. "We started frenching passively." I think it means passionately.
Brooke Matherly 1:04:22
I like the passively.
Zach of Cabbs 1:04:25
Between this and the other author whose works are discussed on this podcast, this author is still the less hateable one.
Christina Kann 1:04:36
An interesting and earnest backstory. I also like this one: "We started to make out keenly." I feel like more makeouts should be super keen, you know?
Zach of Cabbs 1:04:44
Oh, super keen. I was keen on that makeout, okay?
Brooke Matherly 1:04:48
Also, on an intimate level, I connect to the idea of just having sex passively on occasion. Just like, "Hey, look like we're gonna make out. It's gonna be real passive."
Christina Kann 1:04:59
We've all been there.
Haley Simpkiss 1:05:01
We're both on our phones.
Brooke Matherly 1:05:07
We've both realized that it's been too long and we're gonna do this, but we're aware that this is putting in some maintenance. This is an oil change in the relationship.
Zach of Cabbs 1:05:18
He had a sexy English accent. He looked exactly like Joel Madden. He was so sexy that my body went all hot when I saw him kind of like an erection only I’m a girl so I didn’t get one you sicko.
Christina Kann 1:05:29
Oh my god. I highlighted that because I think it was her first glaringly homophobic statement. I was like "Red alert!"
Haley Simpkiss 1:05:35
Can we discuss the dialogue tags on the following exchange?
“I’m so sorry.” he said in a shy voice.
“That’s all right. What’s your name?” I questioned.
“My name’s Harry Potter, although most people call me Vampire these days.” he grumbled.
“Why?” I exclaimed.
“Because I love the taste of human blood.” he giggled.
“Well, I am a vampire.” I confessed.
“Really?” he whimpered.
“Yeah.” I roared.
Christina Kann 1:06:05
"Whimpered" and "roared." Those are both such strong words that seem wildly inappropriate for the situation, both equally in different directions.
Brooke Matherly 1:06:15
Can we talk about the fact that Harry's pentagram isn't a real pentagram? He at one point admits to having just makeup'd over it, and then the scar comes shining back through.
Zach of Cabbs 1:06:30
Who changed the star for him?
Brooke Matherly 1:06:32
Whatever Ron's analogous character is. It's a real left-field word. I forget what it is.
Christina Kann 1:06:41
I LOLed when it came time to describe Lord Voldemort.
He didn’t have a nose (basically like Voldemort in the movie) and he was wearing all black but it was obvious he wasn’t gothic.
Zach of Cabbs 1:06:58
Not the book, because books are lame, and I didn't read them.
Christina Kann 1:07:01
It was…… Voldemort!
Zach of Cabbs 1:07:04
It'd be like if I was doing my mythology retelling—which is so popular these days; everybody's gotta have a myth retelling—and I did Hercules and I was like, "He had a swirly leather skirt thing and a tank top, you know, like the Disney version of Hercules. It was Hercules!"
Christina Kann 1:07:29
That's a good parallel analogy example.
Zach of Cabbs 1:07:35
Good job. These drinks are strong.
Brooke Matherly 1:07:38
She frequently uses "shot" or "shooted" as a dialogue tag.
Christina Kann 1:07:44
Yes, I love that. It's adorable.
Haley Simpkiss 1:07:46
Also, people just keep shooting each other in this. Blade shows up at one point.
Brooke Matherly 1:07:50
Also there are a lot of guns.
Christina Kann 1:07:52
It gets very confusing.
Zach of Cabbs 1:07:56
This was a very dramatic and extremely good moment from the internet historian version:
“Abra Kedavra!” he yelled at Snape and Loopin pointing his womb. I took my gun and shot Snape and Loopin a gazillion times and they both started screaming and the camera broke. Suddenly, Dumblydore ran in. “Ebony, it has been revealed that someone has - NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!” he shouted looking at Snape and Loopin and then he waved his wand and suddenly…"
And that's when Hagrid shows up, and he's like, "I'm a student!" Being shot a gazillion times on their wands while they try to take pervy pictures of Ebony is just like--
Haley Simpkiss 1:08:39
Oh, while Lupin is outside the window masticating, you mean?
Brooke Matherly 1:08:47
And then she addresses it. She clearly got some feedback or comments, and the next time she says in her author's note, "See? I spelled it right this time."
Christina Kann 1:08:58
She didn't spell it right, though.
Zach of Cabbs 1:09:00
Every time she gets snarky with the reader about a spelling error she made, she misspells the word again. It's almost never actually corrected.
Christina Kann 1:09:09
Some people just like really don't give a shit about spelling whatsoever. We have to acknowledge that they exist. You know what I mean?
Zach of Cabbs 1:09:20
They are so indignant about the fact. They're like, "Why would you care that I'm spelling this word wrong five different ways? Fuck you and your elitist need to spell things right."
Brooke Matherly 1:09:33
Haley, this is a thing I need your expertise on. She keeps referencing in her author's notes for people to stop "flaming."
Haley Simpkiss 1:09:45
Christina Kann 1:09:45
I had to google it.
Brooke Matherly 1:09:47
What are we talking about here?
Zach of Cabbs 1:09:49
This is a fanfiction.net OG terminology here.
Haley Simpkiss 1:09:53
Fanfiction still kind of has its own set of terms, but back in the aughts, "flaming" just meant reviews. Porn was "lemons." It was all shit like that.
Zach of Cabbs 1:10:10
It was more than just criticism. It was like, you're angry. "I'm angry that I sat there and read this whole thing."
Haley Simpkiss 1:10:19
Yeah. There were people who made entire hobbies out of just going around and sending flames to people.
Brooke Matherly 1:10:28
You read this as it was coming out. Is that accurate? Were people engaging with this heavily?
Haley Simpkiss 1:10:36
Zach of Cabbs 1:10:37
I remember the OG posting of this. I didn't follow it as it was coming out, but I definitely remember going to the OG link on fanfiction.net to read it.
Haley Simpkiss 1:10:46
Yep, I definitely read this on fanfic.net.
Brooke Matherly 1:10:49
Okay, so what kind of crowd reaction was this getting? Can you walk us through that?
Haley Simpkiss 1:10:55
Just similarly poorly spelled. Some people were telling her in good faith, "Hey, this isn't really how Harry Potter works." Drink. There was one dude who had a form flame he used for everybody that was just like, "Your parents must be inbred clowns." Shit like that. It was stupid. It was stupid then, and it's stupid now. But it was a whole cultural thing on fanfiction.net in the bad old days.
Christina Kann 1:11:36
When you say "flamers," I think of in Avatar: the Last Airbender when he says "Flameo, hotman!"
Haley Simpkiss 1:11:42
I think that might honestly be part of the reason we stopped using that term. It's too easy.
Brooke Matherly 1:11:49
She also notes that she will continue writing if she gets a certain number of reviews.
Christina Kann 1:11:55
So yeah, hold them hostage. Make them hold themselves hostage.
Zach of Cabbs 1:11:59
I will only release the next chapter if I get 15 good reviows.
Brooke Matherly 1:12:05
I'm just imagining a Game of Thrones situation, where in order to get more of the story, you have to vow yourself to fight to the death in the rink against the flamers for this. For the honor of this fanfic.
Zach of Cabbs 1:12:18
I want to cut together excerpts of this that fit into haikus. Haikus of My Immortal, copyright Zachary Urtes. That's my idea. That's mine.
Brooke Matherly 1:12:26
You need to establish a Twitter account now, before this episode comes out.
Christina Kann 1:12:30
Get it quickly.
Haley Simpkiss 1:12:33
That's part of the tragedy of this fanfic being taken down: no one's quite sure if it was taken down by the mods or if it was by a hacker. In 2008 there was this thing called, I think, Critics United. It was just a bunch of conservative Christians who would go around reporting any story they didn't like for any reason—"This has gay stuff." "This kind of talked about sex." "This character was wearing a revealing outfit!"—and report them to the mods.
Christina Kann 1:13:00
Wow, this checks all the boxes.
Zach of Cabbs 1:13:02
I mean, you joke, but also it mentions Satan. Almost every chapter talks about how much all the characters love Satan. So a Christian person would be rightly perturbed.
Haley Simpkiss 1:13:14
Yeah, it could very well have been something like that. But that's why people don't really use fanfiction.net anymore, because that happened, and then all of the porn got kicked off. Tale as old as time; song as old as rhyme.
Zach of Cabbs 1:13:28
The dying ashes of both Tumblr and OnlyFans would like to speak to you right now.
Haley Simpkiss 1:13:37
OnlyFans was saved, as far as I know.
Zach of Cabbs 1:13:39
OnlyFans backpedaled, but no one's gonna fucking trust them as a platform now. There's 15 other platforms that popped up in the past week that everyone's fleeing to right now. OnlyFans is dead. Anyway, I'm mad—not because I watched a lot of porn, but because I care about sex workers.
Brooke Matherly 1:13:56
Oh, see, I was actually assuming it was because your OnlyFans was getting shut down.
Zach of Cabbs 1:13:59
That's right! My feet pics are not getting any more traction. It's terrible.
Haley Simpkiss 1:14:03
I was mad about the porn getting taken down.
Brooke Matherly 1:14:07
Amateur porn is better than produced porn every single day.
Haley Simpkiss 1:14:09
You're right. That's the thing: There's some really good fanfiction out there. A lot of it is erotic. I can't read published erotic fiction because I know how much better stuff is out there for free.
Zach of Cabbs 1:14:23
I want my porn to be produced and profited off of by the person that's doing the fuckin. That person doing the fuckin? They should be the one controlling their content.
Christina Kann 1:14:34
I want to talk about the music choices in this just a little bit. They talk about Good Charlotte a lot. They mention Simple Plan and Evanescence, obviously. But My Chemical Romance, I think, is The One. The song they mention by far the most is "Helena" by My Chemical Romance. I think they mention that a good 10 times. I personally fucking love that song. It's one of my favorite songs of all time. It's so good and sexy, and in fact, I've been known to say that if I had a daughter I'd name her Helena. Was it partially because the song made it sound cute? Maybe.
Haley Simpkiss 1:15:34
Also, the music video was pretty good. I'm not really that into music genres; I don't know a lot about music. But Tara—Ebony—Enoby—goes on and on and on about how much of a goth she is. But "goth" is a genre of music, and almost none of the bands she's referencing are technically goth. They're mostly punk rock or emo.
Brooke Matherly 1:16:04
What Haley just did there was a little bit of gatekeeping for the music choices in My Immortal.
Zach of Cabbs 1:16:16
It's no Cats (2019), but come on.
Haley Simpkiss 1:16:19
This is just something that I read. Again, I know nothing about that stuff, but it's just another layer of this being incorrect.
Brooke Matherly 1:16:26
So you did correct yourself just there, and I do think we need to talk about this: Is this character's name actually Ebony or is it Enoby?
Christina Kann 1:16:35
I think it's Enoby?
Haley Simpkiss 1:16:39
If you ran a word search for Ebony versus Enoby, I think Enoby would outnumber it. On the official My Immortal wiki, it's used interchangeably.
Zach of Cabbs 1:16:51
God, is this like a Berenstain Bears situation? Our universes are split between Ebony and Enoby?
Haley Simpkiss 1:16:58
No, no, no, no, because the Berenstain/Berenstein thing is a memory situation, whereas with this, you can see the disparity between chapters.
Zach of Cabbs 1:17:12
What if the writer has been traveling between these two dimensions and is getting confused?
Haley Simpkiss 1:17:20
She's just a walking thin spot between dimensions?
Zach of Cabbs 1:17:24
Yes, she's constantly shifting between the planes. That's my new headcanon.
Haley Simpkiss 1:17:31
That's where she is. That's why we can't find her. She's in the other reality. She's in the Enoby universe.
Zach of Cabbs 1:17:36
In the other universe, perfect grammar sounds like a cringy horrible teen that doesn't know anything about how to write proper sentences.
Haley Simpkiss 1:17:45
And over there, it's Berenstein Bears and Nelson Mandela's alive. Or dead. Where are we? Which reality are we in?
Brooke Matherly 1:17:54
We're in the worst one. We're in the worst reality.
Zach of Cabbs 1:17:57
We're in the darkest timeline.
Brooke Matherly 1:17:58
We're 19 months into a pandemic. Afghanistan just imploded as a country.
Zach of Cabbs 1:18:03
I made you all paper goatees to put on. We're all on the evilest, darkest timeline.
Brooke Matherly 1:18:08
We have rampant inflation. For some reason, it's not fixing anything. Our world is--
Christina Kann 1:18:14
Brooke, the patrons pay for these episodes. They have to be fun.
Zach of Cabbs 1:18:18
Literally the whole world is on fire. Okay, let's move on. We're back in Hogwarts with the gothic people.
Brooke Matherly 1:18:22
Our patrons know the world is chaos.
Christina Kann 1:18:25
I just came across a particular dialogue tag that I highlighted. "Gadgeted"? "He gadgeted uncomfortably"? So that's a fun one.
Haley Simpkiss 1:18:37
What was that? supposed? to be?
Brooke Matherly 1:18:44
I actually think that was a moment where one of the characters turned into one of the cars from Cars (2006). Because it was a car from the Cars universe, they had to be gadgeted back into reality. You know, sometimes you fiddle with the radio, you’re gadgeting it.
Haley Simpkiss 1:18:59
Wait, did this character turn into the DeLorean? Because that did turn up at one point.
Christina Kann 1:19:03
That literally turned up!
Brooke Matherly 1:19:05
It's either that or Tow Mater. So...
Zach of Cabbs 1:19:08
When I was a young tweenage boy, I wanted to be a writer. And I wrote several manuscripts. I thought, "Hey, look, Christopher Paolini did it with Eragon, so I can be a kid writer too! I'm gonna start writing a book." And I thought, "Well, what's going to make my writing interesting? Whatever I'm interested in right the fuck now, obviously! So I'm just gonna take everything I'm interested in on this particular day and jam it into this chapter. And it's not gonna have anything to do with anything else. But it's interesting to me. So it must be interesting to the people who are going to read it." And I see that all over the place in My Immortal with how things just come and go and interests pass and fade. You almost get a sense for who this teenage girl is as she's writing this fanfiction.
Haley Simpkiss 1:20:07
In all fairness, Moby Dick is also exactly like that. Also, side note, if you're someone who, at any point, particularly at your old age, starts thinking, "Maybe I'm gonna write a children's book"—there's more to it than watching a nature documentary about an interesting animal and coming up with a story where it lives in your hometown for no reason. That's just a thing that I feel like everyone should be aware of.
Brooke Matherly 1:20:35
Does it change your opinion if I can find an alliterative title?
Haley Simpkiss 1:20:39
Brooke Matherly 1:20:39
What if it's Toby the Turtle or Doreen the Dolphin?
Haley Simpkiss 1:20:44
Zach of Cabbs 1:20:44
No one wants to read my story about Lucy the Elephant Blogger?
Haley Simpkiss 1:20:50
No, and no one wants to edit it either.
Brooke Matherly 1:20:53
It would actually be Eleanor the Elephant Blogger. Those are the rules of children's books with animals. I can't explain it.
Zach of Cabbs 1:21:02
It's triumphelephant, that book.
Christina Kann 1:21:04
Oh, my God, way to bring it full circle. I don't know why I was thinking about this question, but does this text—and perhaps even the lore around it—pass the Bechdel Test?
Zach of Cabbs 1:21:18
Very good question.
Brooke Matherly 1:21:19
Zach of Cabbs 1:21:20
At some point, Tara and Raven have to talk about what they're wearing. Right?
Christina Kann 1:21:23
I think it does pass.
Brooke Matherly 1:21:26
Christina Kann 1:21:29
Raven and Tara are part of the canon.
Zach of Cabbs 1:21:33
Raven and Ebony have to talk about what they're wearing at some point.
Brooke Matherly 1:21:39
They don't, though. The only interactions Ebony has with another ostensibly female character is B'loody Mary. Okay, this is a technicality thing. They do talk about how hot they are to each other. Do we consider that passing the Bechdel Test, as it is technically not about men? Or is it not passing the Bechdel Test because it is clearly done within the context of the male gaze?
Zach of Cabbs 1:22:08
That's the most depressing feminist question I've ever heard in my entire life.
Christina Kann 1:22:12
You're right about that. I just feel like the Raven-and-author back-and-forth is also part of the canon of this narrative. And to me, that is what passes the Bechdel Test, because they're talking about craft and art.
Haley Simpkiss 1:22:26
And the sweater! They argue about the sweater.
Christina Kann 1:22:29
Men don't come up except that they're in this story that they're writing together. But like, men pop up everywhere, you know? They have to be in the story. To me, that's how this passes the Bechdel Test.
Haley Simpkiss 1:22:41
The feud over the sweater.
Zach of Cabbs 1:22:42
Tara is clearly not a Harry Potter fan at all, and I see some choices when she went, "You know what? Fuck it. I want them all to be from Slytherin because Slytherin is the only cool one," or whatever. But we see little things that have to just be, "I watched this movie absentmindedly once, and I don't actually know." Mr. Norris and Fletch or whatever? Fletch is the name of the cat, and Mr. Norris is the name of the janitor who goes through the halls.
Christina Kann 1:23:15
Isn't it Filth?
Brooke Matherly 1:23:17
It's Filth, which I like better. Mr. Norris and Filth is the correct choice.
Christina Kann 1:23:27
How about the drug use in this? I highlighted this one sentence: "We did pot, coke and crack," with no Oxford comma.
Haley Simpkiss 1:23:38
"Everything that my mom said would make me go to hell, I'm just gonna put it in here!"
Zach of Cabbs 1:23:44
"And then I masticated and my hands got hairy. Oh no!"
Haley Simpkiss 1:23:47
"And I went blind!"
Christina Kann 1:23:50
The next thing I highlighted was, "We had you-know-what to a Linkin Park Song."
Haley Simpkiss 1:23:55
Oh yeah, there are a couple of times where she's mad at Draco and then he just drops to his knees and starts singing Good Charlotte at her until she forgives him.
Brooke Matherly 1:24:05
Here's the thing: if that had happened to me while I was in middle school in the middle of the hallway in between classes, I would have been like, "Yep, this is perfect. Life has peaked."
Christina Kann 1:24:16
I feel like I've been slowly laughing to the point of weeping this whole episode. I've been giggling so steadily.
Haley Simpkiss 1:24:25
Are you guys aware of the "Again, weird, but not technically a sin" meme? Someone will talk about something very weird they did that's not morally wrong but definitely strange, and then someone will respond as a priest that this is being confessed to, "That's weird, but once again, that is not a sin." That was how I felt watching the Sarah Z videos about this just for two hours straight alone.
Zach of Cabbs 1:25:06
There's this part here where Snake, who is referred to--
Haley Simpkiss 1:25:10
Or Snoop, or Snap?
Zach of Cabbs 1:25:14
Snake and Loopin were in da middle of da empty hall, doin it, and Dobby was watching!1
Brooke Matherly 1:25:23
Once again, this should have been a threesome.
Zach of Cabbs 1:25:26
That scene got me to a half-mast. I'm not gonna lie. It was described so sexily that I couldn't help but become aroused.
Haley Simpkiss 1:25:34
Why are Snape and Lupin always hanging out in this? It's like they're besties.
Christina Kann 1:25:38
I know! Here's the next thing I highlighted: "if ur a homophone den fuk of!" Okay, all homophones get out!
Zach of Cabbs 1:25:50
What is a homophone?
Brooke Matherly 1:25:51
It's two words that sound like each other.
Christina Kann 1:25:54
Like "sofa king" and "so fucking."
Zach of Cabbs 1:25:56
Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Interesting. So fucking fuck off.
Brooke Matherly 1:26:03
At some point, we must cut ourselves off.
Christina Kann 1:26:07
Yeah, it's time to wrap it up.
Zach of Cabbs 1:26:10
You mean we're not gonna keep going for five more hours? I have more notes.
Brooke Matherly 1:26:14
This could be a separate level of Patreon content, where we just go through line by line. We would have two years' worth of content.
Christina Kann 1:26:23
There's so many layers here.
Haley Simpkiss 1:26:24
No! Do not give the listeners ideas, Brooke. Don't give them ideas! They'll ask us to do it!
Zach of Cabbs 1:26:30
In college, I would read this fic until I’d have to go, "Okay, stop." And then I would rant about some particular thing. And then I would get back to reading, and then I would say, "Stop," and I would rant. And by two hours in, I would only be on chapter five.
Christina Kann 1:26:45
Okay, we're gonna wrap this up. But before we go, I want everyone to read one line that they like. Can we do that?
Brooke Matherly 1:26:53
I don't have the text in front of me.
Zach of Cabbs 1:26:55
Hold on. I'm looking. I'm scanning through my favorites.
Brooke Matherly 1:27:02
There was a point where she was describing a dress with red lace all over it. And the problem was that I read that and thought, "Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about" immediately. I was like, "I know that goth dress."
Christina Kann 1:27:15
Yeah, that's the thing that I would give the award to in this: costume description. Really excellent; I could envision all of them very well.
Zach of Cabbs 1:27:25
I am shocked that no one has done a Drunk-History-style, live action retelling of this. I have a passage to read.
Brooke Matherly 1:27:36
This passage comes from . . . Are you gonna give us our chapter and verse?
Zach of Cabbs 1:27:39
“Crookshanks!” I shouted at him. Voldemort fell of his broom and started to scream. I felt bad for him even though I’m a sadist so I stopped.
Christina Kann 1:27:56
Haley Simpkiss 1:27:57
I grabbed a steak and almost stuck it into my heart to commit suicide. I was so fucking depressed! I got out of the bathtub and put on a black low-cut dress with lace all over it sandly. I put on black high heels with pink metal stuff on the ends and six pairs of skull earrings. I couldn’t fucking believe it. Then I looked out the window and screamed… Snap was spying on me and he was taking a video tape of me! And Loopin was masticating to it! They were sitting on their broomsticks.
Zach of Cabbs 1:28:39
So good. I feel inspired. I'm gonna go write. I'm gonna go work on my manuscript.
Christina Kann 1:28:46
Wait, I have to compose myself so I can read mine.
Zach of Cabbs 1:28:50
Don't laugh or you lose. If Christina laughs, we all drink.
Christina Kann 1:28:54
*cackling and weeping constantly*
“Oh my fucking god, where’s Draco!!!!111 How did Snap get back here!!! I tohot he wuz in Azerbaijan.” I asked sadly.
Brooke Matherly 1:29:25
Christina. Christina. Focus. What was the last thing I said in our last chapter of Prisoner of Azkaban?
Brooke Matherly (flashback clip) 1:29:34
I just want to say that I've been waiting this whole book to try to see if there's a way I could naturally make a "Prisoner of Azerbaijan" reference, and it never came up, so I'm just gonna leave it here.
Christina Kann 1:29:45
We got there!
Brooke Matherly 1:29:47
That is meant to be Azkaban, I guarantee it. That is spell correct being like, "Azerbaijan???"
Zach of Cabbs 1:29:55
"I don't fucking know."
Brooke Matherly 1:29:59
I understood you, Tara.
Haley Simpkiss 1:30:04
So are we still of the opinion that this is a completely earnest effort?
Brooke Matherly 1:30:09
Christina Kann 1:30:10
I think it was! That's the craziest part of this whole thing: I think it was earnest.
Brooke Matherly 1:30:15
It's gotta be.
Zach of Cabbs 1:30:16
I think it began in earnest, and at some point late into the making of it, maybe it became a little more self-aware. But for the most part, I think it was earnest, yeah. It began in earnest.
Haley Simpkiss 1:30:26
I still don't know. I still simply do not know.
Christina Kann 1:30:33
Haley, thank you so much for taking us on this journey.
Haley Simpkiss 1:30:36
Thank you for coming with me. I'm glad that we all got to share this bonding experience. I'd say I'm sorry, but you guys tricked me into watching Cats (2019). Zach, I'm sorry, but you'd already read it. You guys tricked me into watching Cats (2019), so this is just vengeance.
Christina Kann 1:30:48
Haley Simpkiss 1:30:50
We're square now.
Zach of Cabbs 1:30:52
I'm gonna go read My Immortal again for fun even though we're done recording.
Brooke Matherly 1:30:56
Are you okay?
Christina Kann 1:30:58
It was great fun.
Zach of Cabbs 1:31:00
Really quick, I want to plug a another terrible fanfic you can find a very famous video of on YouTube called Half-Life Full-Life Consequences. Worth a watch.
Haley Simpkiss 1:31:10
Oh, you just unlocked a very deep memory.
Zach of Cabbs 1:31:14
Very, very good Half-Life fanfic from someone who is not only a child, but clearly not a native English speaker. It's rough but very funny.
Christina Kann 1:31:24
Haley, thank you so much for leading us. Brooke, thank you for being here. As always, this is your burden. Zach, you're a special guest. Thank you for what I assume was a pleasure to you. I don't know.
Zach of Cabbs 1:31:42
I had a great time.
Christina Kann 1:31:43
And that's My Immortal.
Haley Simpkiss 1:31:44
Haley Simpkiss 1:31:47
And finally, please enjoy this owl mail from our best good buddy, Mats:
After relistening to y'all's bonus episode on the absolute magnum opus of literature that is My Immortal, I have a theory.
[Sounds of people gasping in shock]
Tara Gilesbie is actually Tara Reid, renowned actress known from critically acclaimed movies such as the Sharknado franchise.
That's my thesis statement.
My theory is that Tara Reid loved writing fanfiction when she was younger (usually under the pseudonym "Tara Gilesbie"), and after many failed attempts, she had finally something worthy of being remembered for. After finishing it, she turned the story she wrote into a horcrux by placing a fragment of her soul—a memory of Tara Gilesbie—inside of it, to preserve the story as well as her secret identity. It will now be remembered until the end of time. Kind of adds another layer to the title, doesn't it?
And that is who wrote this masterpiece of a fanfiction, and how it's been able to live in our brains for so long.
Anyway, I hope you all have a lovely day! Love you all!
I have the honor to be your obedient servant,
M dot Fur
PS. I'm sorry you had to read this piece of utter nonsense. Hopefully it didn't break your brain.
PPS. Do you think that ~80 years from now, they will release a My Immortal 100-year anniversary leatherbound edition? Because if so, I'm totally buying it.
PLEASE tell us what you think of this fanfic, its lore, and/or this episode in the comments.
Christina Kann 00:23
Welcome to The Restricted Section, where we love our trans friends!
Charlie Mack 00:31
I feel so loved.
Christina Kann 00:34
I am very excited to be joined today by my beloved friend, Grace. Say hello to the listeners, Grace.
Grace Ball 00:39
Christina Kann 00:41
How have you been, Grace?
Grace Ball 00:42
Oh guys, not great. I am a little bit under the weather today, but being here with you is making it all better. So thank you so much for having me today.
Christina Kann 00:54
Yeah, I just wanted to give you the opportunity to to explain why your voice is like this. Better to just get out of the way at the beginning so people aren't wondering if Grace is okay.
Grace Ball 01:05
For the record, I am okay.
Christina Kann 01:08
And, of course, we are so excited to be joined today by our friend, Charlie! Say hello to the listeners, Charlie.
Charlie Mack 01:14
Hello to the listeners, Charlie.
Christina Kann 01:17
Recently, on our Patreon bonus feed, I said I was going to stop introducing you, but I think that you deserve an introduction right now because you are one of the co-hosts of Of the Eldest Gods! You want to tell everyone what changes are happening over there right now?
Charlie Mack 01:34
Oh, yeah! Well, one: we're starting a new book finally. Season three! And I got a new co-host for the podcast finally.
Christina Kann 01:46
Tell us about them.
Charlie Mack 01:48
Raye is wonderful. I met them through stalking their Barbie podcast, Barbie Movies Slap. It's a fun time. Very good shit. And we just we just became friends through other Barbie podcasts.
Christina Kann 02:05
Yes! Internet friends are the best!
Charlie Mack 02:11
They actually approached me. That's the fun thing about this. I posted, "Oh, yeah, I'm still looking for a new co-host for the pod!" and then they were like, "I might possibly be interested in that. Let me let me figure out some schedule things, but yeah, I'd probably be down."
Christina Kann 02:35
Yeah, and we love Raye so much, so I'm very excited to hear the start of the new season.
Grace Ball 02:40
Welcome to the family, Raye!
Christina Kann 02:42
Yeah, and we miss Taylor, but not really because I still talk to her every day.
Charlie Mack 02:48
Taylor is wonderful. She's still around.
Christina Kann 02:52
Her her main role in the network now is pod mom. "What do you need, honey?"
Charlie Mack 02:56
She's the SecreTaylor.
Christina Kann 03:02
I think we call them Administrative-Assist-Taylors now.
Charlie Mack 03:07
No, that's her nickname the discord. Raye, Taylor, and I literally coined that in the episode we all did together.
Christina Kann 03:18
And I love that y'all had an episode where Taylor got the opportunity to pass the torch along to Raye. That's very cute and symbolic. You know I love some symbolism.
Charlie Mack 03:26
It was very good and fun.
Christina Kann 03:29
And I'm sure you'll hear Taylor's dulcet tones all over this network for the rest of time.
Charlie Mack 03:39
We already saved an episode for her for Titan's Curse.
Christina Kann 03:48
I did a bad job of doing this in our last episode, but Happy Pride everyone! Very exciting. A personality trait about myself is that I'm a bragger, and when I do anything, I love to tell everyone I know about it. So I bought my first bi pride shirt this year, and I'm very excited about that.
Grace Ball 04:13
Charlie Mack 04:14
I love that for you.
Christina Kann 04:15
Thank you so much.
Grace Ball 04:17
I can't wait to see it!
Charlie Mack 04:18
Someday you'll catch up to the amount of pride things I have.
Christina Kann 04:21
I actually feel like one is enough.
Christina Kann 04:25
I have my inclusive pride flag in my home, and then I made myself a bi pride necklace, like a friendship bracelet situation, and I bought this t-shirts, so I actually have three things now.
Charlie Mack 04:25
Charlie Mack 05:03
I think I have like 100 things.
Christina Kann 05:09
Well, I bought the flag because I had parties at my house and stuff, so new people coming to my house kind of frequently, and I just want everyone to know, "You're in a safe place." I don't want that to be up for debate. We posted that on the wall.
Christina Kann 06:51
So I we're here today to talk about "Sorted: Growing Up, Coming Out, and Finding My Place," a transgender memoir by Jackson Bird. And I first heard about this book from from Charlie, weird. Charlie, can you tell us a little bit about Sorted and how you found out about it and why you recommended it to me?
Charlie Mack 07:19
Well, you know, it's about this very special boy named Jackson Bird
Christina Kann 07:26
*scatching* Jackson Bird was a very special boy!
Charlie Mack 07:33
Well, it's a trans memoir. You know, it's his story of how he figured out -- throughout his entire life -- just all the little things that were like "This kind of gave me little inklings that I was different.' And like, as it goes on, he's like, "Yeah, I realized I was trans." And then it takes you through his transition a little bit until a certain point. I like it. It's very fun.
Christina Kann 08:04
So why is it called Sorted?
Charlie Mack 08:06
Well, that's the reason why I told you we should cover this on The Restricted Section. Because yes, I mean, for some reason, my brain was like, "Oh, yeah, there's like a lot of Harry Potter in it." There is, but there isn't.
Christina Kann 08:22
For much of the book, he works and/or volunteers for what was formerly the Harry Potter Alliance. So there's a lot of Harry Potter discourse in the background of this book.
Charlie Mack 08:34
Yeah, sometimes there's a picture in the book where it's like, I'm cosplaying Sirius Black here.
Christina Kann 08:40
Oh my god. There's some great pictures in this book.
Charlie Mack 08:43
There are. I love the pictures. It's always talking about, "Oh, yeah, I was this nerd who just really liked Harry Potter." It's Sorted because -- God, the front cover is like the best part of this book. Grace, have you seen the front cover?
Grace Ball 09:02
I have. I did listen to the audiobook, but I was able to see the front cover.
Charlie Mack 09:07
I love the front cover because it's has the check marks for male, female, and if you've got it, you just want to brush off the little eraser marks on the "female."
Christina Kann 09:20
I definitely tried to brush them off more than once.
Charlie Mack 09:24
It's so funny to me, because I always want to do it too. "You know, we sort too soon," as one might say.
Christina Kann 09:34
It says it on the back cover.
Charlie Mack 09:36
It does, in fact.
Grace Ball 09:39
As the back cover might say...
Charlie Mack 09:42
As Albus Dumbledore himself might say...
Christina Kann 09:45
How did you learn about this book, Charlie?
Charlie Mack 09:48
Because I follow Jackson Bird.
Christina Kann 09:52
Grace Ball 09:53
That's cool. Did you watch a lot of Jackson's YouTube videos and stuff?
Charlie Mack 09:58
Yeah. So not before-transition things. If you don't know -- Hi, I'm trans masc and nonbinary.
Christina Kann 10:10
Oh my god, I can't believe it.
Charlie Mack 10:12
Yeah. So I kind of fell into a lot of trans guy stuff on YouTube. It started being recommended to me, and I started watching stuff. So I follow people like Jackson and there's also like Jamie Dodger, who does cool stuff. Just a lot of trans stuff, so I could get tips and tricks on binders and other sorts of things.
Grace Ball 10:43
That's an awesome resource.
Christina Kann 10:45
Did you follow Alex Bertie by any chance?
Charlie Mack 10:49
Christina Kann 10:50
He's another trans YouTuber whomst's memoir I read. It's called Trans Mission.
Charlie Mack 11:02
That's a podcast that Jackson had.
Christina Kann 11:08
And now I'm wondering if Alex Bertie talked about Jackson Bird and maybe that wordplay in his memoir, but I didn't know who Jackson was at the time.
Charlie Mack 11:18
I did, in fact, meet Jackson, at LeakyCon a couple years back, and I got him to sign my book because I'm a huge-ass nerd. And I was dressed up as young Harry in the oversized plaid shirt.
Grace Ball 11:37
That's a good one.
Christina Kann 11:39
You're like, "Joke's on you. I'm actually in my pajamas."
Charlie Mack 11:42
It's a fun outfit, because I just get to wear oversized clothing.
Christina Kann 11:52
So Grace, you listen to this on audiobook?
Grace Ball 11:54
Christina Kann 11:55
But Charlie, you read the print, right?
Charlie Mack 11:57
Christina Kann 11:59
I read the print as well. Did Jackson narrate the audiobook?
Grace Ball 12:03
Jackson did narrate the audiobook, which I thought was very awesome.
Christina Kann 12:07
I think that's really the only way to go with memoirs.
Grace Ball 12:10
Christina Kann 12:10
How do you not do that?
Charlie Mack 12:13
Who would you have narrate your memoir?
Grace Ball 12:15
Right? You can't hire an actor to narrate.
Charlie Mack 12:20
I just can't like ask Morgan Freeman to narrate my memoir. That's not how it works.
Christina Kann 12:26
Wait, Charlie, I think you're on to something.
Grace Ball 12:29
Yeah, actually I take back everything I just said.
Christina Kann 12:31
Write that down for later.
Charlie Mack 12:33
I definitely heard Jackson's voice in my head just because I know it well enough.
Christina Kann 12:42
So Grace, did you listen to this at work while you were taking? I did. Yeah, I don't know if I've told you that recently, I got a new job at a brewery maybe like a mile from my house, and I walked to work, and every day I get to walk past Grace's work, and I see her little ponytail and her little icing hands, and I never say hi, because I'm like, "Oh, that looks like she's dealing with something. My little girl," and I keep walking.
Grace Ball 13:11
You should always just do a little tap.
Christina Kann 13:14
I check every time. I'm like, "She's really concentrating on whatever that is."
Grace Ball 13:20
Well, I feel your presence.
Christina Kann 13:24
Next time I tap, don't come outside. Just wave. We'll just wave.
Grace Ball 13:27
Okay, we'll just do a wave. It doesn't have to be an ordeal.
Christina Kann 13:31
So how was the narration? Do you feel like it added to the memoir, the fact that was being read to you by the author?
Grace Ball 13:39
Yeah, I definitely do. I think that Jackson did an awesome job narrating the audiobook. I mean, obviously, he has a lot of speaking experience, which I'm sure it came in handy. But yeah, it was delivered very well, and it made me feel like an already personal story was made even more personal. So I definitely recommend recommend the audiobook if you haven't listened to it.
Christina Kann 14:07
It's like you're just buddying up with a pal and you're like, "Tell me about your life."
Charlie Mack 14:13
I don't listen to audiobooks, but I feel like I definitely would for something like this.
Christina Kann 14:19
Some books I've come across in my life are much better as audiobooks, especially memoirs.
Christina Kann 14:25
I am sad, though, because it sounds like the book has a lot of images and stuff like that.
Christina Kann 14:28
Grace, when I see you next, we can just flip through it.
Grace Ball 14:42
Yeah, I definitely want to.
Christina Kann 14:43
I mean, in the beginning of the book, a lot of the pictures are like, "See, look at me. I was a girl, and it was fucking weird," basically. But once it gets into the middle, when he's in college and he's doing fun stuff, some of the pictures are pretty funny like that. All of the cosplay's very fun. He always contextualizes the photos, too, which is helpful. He's like, "Oh, I actually felt pretty cute on this day," or he's like, "This was a nightmare photo." Oh my god or that one photo of his dad's wedding when there was like a wildfire. "Metaphor like my life that summer?" And then I wonder, Grace -- in the print book, there are some sections that are set out, excerpts from Jackson's journal, in this handwriting font and sometimes they were on little separate piece of paper, you know, like little separate sections. Did he just read them? Was he like, "This is a note now."
Grace Ball 15:47
I don't remember if that was just like part of the regular text.
Christina Kann 15:52
That means they did it good, if she doesn't even remember how they did it.
Grace Ball 15:54
Exactly. Seamless. Really good. I think it was sort of just read as part of the text. Maybe there was like a short line that was like, "From my journal" or "from this time" or something like that. But yeah, it wasn't weird or anything. It wasn't weird.
Charlie Mack 16:13
And then there are those blocks of the gray text that explain stuff.
Christina Kann 16:19
Memoirs are written kind of like novels. They're narrative. Occasionally there's dialogue, and all of the dialogue is assumed to be paraphrasing. And then Sorted had, as I mentioned, set aside little journal excerpts from Jackson, sometimes with photos sometimes by themselves. And then yeah, like Charlie said, there were also textbooky, but in like a cute way, sections set aside to delve into a trans concept that you might not be familiar with. And that was so cool.
Grace Ball 16:55
Yeah. And did y'all start out with definitions?
Charlie Mack 16:59
Yes. It's like the first thing in there, isn't it?
Christina Kann 17:06
Yeah, it's very cool. It also comes with a disclaimer. Jackson is like, "A lot of this language means different things to different people. Here are some general definitions, but also don't assume anything. "There's a lot of complexity and variance to each term and to the relationship between it and each individual it may apply to. The more research you do, and the more willing you are to listen to new information, the better." That's the thesis statement of life, I guess.
Christina Kann 17:43
I've read a couple books like this. They're almost like beginners level transgender memoirs, where the intended audience is kids who are looking for resources as they're questioning their gender, and adults who are dealing with their trans children to learn and get a firsthand experience and try to understand better. It's almost like"So you want to learn about trans stuff." You know what I'm saying? I think it's so cool that these books exist. And I've read a couple. I read Alex Birdy's Trans Mission and a couple others before that. It is very cool the way it's like, "A lot of this can be confusing. So let me just like explain the whole thing to you."
Grace Ball 18:38
Yeah, I thought the educational element was very cool. I think it read is very endearing and welcoming. It felt very non-judgmental. No matter who is reading this book, no matter what your understanding is, it sort of met you where you were. I found that to be just so nice the whole time.
Christina Kann 19:16
He goes through a lot of shit when he is questioning his gender and trying to figure it out, but in the back of your head, you're like, "Well, he figures it out. You know he's gonna be okay."
Grace Ball 19:42
It's gonna be all right.
Charlie Mack 19:43
It gets better!
Christina Kann 19:44
I have a lot of queer friends and I work in language as a living, so a lot of the terminology -- "here's your little introduction of what this word means" -- a lot of it I knew already, but I think it's cool to also get the added context for every subject that he brought up. He's like, "Here's my take on it. Here's like my understanding of the community's take on it. Here's the technical definition." It does kind of give you all the information you need.
Charlie Mack 20:13
On this reread, I will say, I definitely skipped most of the gray things just because I was like, "Yeah, at this point, I know what's going on."
Christina Kann 20:21
Charlie's like "Let me read this definition of nonbinary. According to Webster's Dictionary..."
Grace Ball 20:27
Yeah. It's there if you need it, and if you don't need it, just move right along.
Christina Kann 20:34
The first half of this book is Jackson's childhood, and the second half of it is college and just the very beginning of after college.
Charlie Mack 20:48
Yeah, 25 is when he comes out, it says here.
Christina Kann 20:54
So a lot of the first half was about his childhood not feeling quite right and things coming up that were like, "Why is this an issue?" Like the dresses thing. "This is a fucking issue for me." And the mom just being like, "Why? Why are you like this?"
Charlie Mack 21:16
Some kids just are, man.
Christina Kann 21:18
That's the thing! Some kids are like this, and some kids are questioning their gender. And that's why it's good to have open communication and resources like this.
Grace Ball 21:30
There were some cool moments where his mom had, you know, sewn him a dress, and very clearly he was not cool with that.
Christina Kann 21:42
I think it was an Easter dress, right? The worst kind of dress.
Christina Kann 21:47
Christina Kann 21:47
For someone who doesn't like dresses, it's the worst.
Grace Ball 21:51
Just the frilliest kind. But then after that, his mom started sewing little waistcoats.
Charlie Mack 21:56
I'm jealous. I'm like legit jealous. The fact that he got to swap two waistcoats instead of dresses.
Christina Kann 22:09
I think we should shout out Jackson's mom, whose name I don't remember, because she really tries her best in this memorial. She keeps a listening ear. She like does her best not to judge. I think she says a couple things in passing when he's really young that she probably wasn't thinking too hard about. But generally, when it comes to it, she's like, "I support your choices. I will make you waistcoats. I will listen to you try to come out to me as trans for like three hours," which is such a cute scene.
Grace Ball 22:42
Christina Kann 22:46
The dad's not as much in the picture. I think after Jackson moves away to college, his parents got divorced.
Grace Ball 22:54
Yes, and then the mom moved to New Mexico.
Christina Kann 22:58
Oh, yeah. Go visit your mom in the mountains of New Mexico. Whenever my friends are trying to move away, I'm like, "I will miss you so much. But you should go, and I will come there. I will visit you." I even tried to get to convince Sean to take a road trip up through Boston to Canada this summer, but he said we're doing Nashville instead. So that's fine.
Charlie Mack 23:23
*from the Boston area* Well, ah, Sean, how fucking dare you?
Christina Kann 23:28
Sean's ex-girlfriend is from Canada, and her name was also Christina. She was my same height, and she broke up with him for being too short, so you could say I'm a good person.
Charlie Mack 23:40
Oh, fuck her for that.
Grace Ball 23:43
Christina Kann 23:44
So I think Sean's like, "I can't take this Christina to Canada. That doesn't add up."
Christina Kann 23:52
So one thing I thought was really cool: In the beginning, Jackson talks about how he used acting as a way of exploring not only gender, but also personality expression at large. And I thought that was so cool.
Charlie Mack 24:10
I also was an actor at some points in my childhood.
Christina Kann 24:17
Charlie Mack 24:17
It didn't last for very long. When I was like 13, I think, my mom and I really hated the fact that my teacher basically gave me hooker makeup for my last play. So we're just like, "We're gonna stop doing that program." And then I never got into it at school because I hated auditions.
Christina Kann 24:45
I just thought of that Dolly Parton quote where she's like, "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap."
Grace Ball 24:52
I love Dolly. Oh my gosh.
Christina Kann 24:58
So you did acting too! Grace, do you have any like theater experience?
Grace Ball 25:01
Absolutely not. That is my worst nightmare. Being on a stage in front of people? I cannot think of anything worse.
Charlie Mack 25:14
Some of my plays at this program were filmed -- we still have those -- my mom distinctly remembers how I used to basically memorize the entire script, and when I wasn't the one speaking, I would mouth what everybody else had to say, while they were saying it. And we have photographic evidence.
Christina Kann 25:40
That reminds me that I watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail with Andrew the other day, and it was his birthday, so I told him that he was allowed to quote every single line, and he did!
Grace Ball 25:50
What a gift.
Christina Kann 25:52
Him and Haley were reciting the whole thing.
Charlie Mack 25:57
I wouldn't study the script until way later. I'm a procrastinator. You know this about me. But then I would finally learn it, and then I would know all of it.
Christina Kann 26:17
I did theater in high school. I like took it as a credited course, and I did after-school theater.
Charlie Mack 26:26
I didn't take theater in college, but I did take playwriting courses.
Christina Kann 26:34
Do you like playwriting?
Charlie Mack 26:36
Playwriting is actually pretty good. I prefer prose, but I liked playwriting because I love dialogue.
Christina Kann 26:46
I like that playwriting forces you to have good dialogue. There's nothing else. Man, we should make our authors do that as an exercise, Grace.
Grace Ball 26:57
That is so true. Like a little playwriting prompt.
Charlie Mack 27:02
I prefer dialogue.
Christina Kann 27:03
I was not a very good actor. I did a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. And I think that I was not a very good actor because personally, I have a problem where I am a super transparent person. I'm always the exact same person. It's very hard for me to be professional for work. It's very hard for me to not swear in front of babies. I'm not very good at becoming a different person. I would be like Nicolas Cage if I were an actor. You can have Nicolas Cage in your movie if you want this person, who is Nicolas Cage, to be the character in your movie. There's not a lot of wiggle room.
Grace Ball 27:42
You're just so unabashedly authentically yourself, and I respect the hell out it.
Christina Kann 27:47
Me and Nic, baby. So I'm really bad at acting, because I'm always just kind of like laughing and screaming at people.
Grace Ball 27:54
Did you win an award for like set design or something?
Christina Kann 27:58
Oh, my God, Grace. Thank you so much for bringing it up. I would love to brag about the one award I ever won in my life. Yes, when I was in 11th grade, I did win a Cappy's Award, which is the DC metro high school theater competition for the set decoration of The Musical Comedy Murders of 1940, which is a great play that involved hidden bookcases and trapdoors and stuff. It was a very cool set that I loved a lot. It's the best thing I've ever done.
Grace Ball 28:38
You should brag about that!
Christina Kann 28:38
How did we get here?
Grace Ball 28:40
I don't know.
Christina Kann 28:42
I can't really relate to the concept of using acting as a way to exploring being another person. I think that's so cool -- first of all, that people can act, and that Jackson found an outlet through it as a kid.
Grace Ball 28:56
Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense.
Charlie Mack 28:58
Yeah. If I could compare my journey to that, I definitely use cosplay a bit more for that kind of stuff. Like, yes, acting was a thing, but I was not really at that level. I wasn't mentally thinking about gender in terms of acting. I was just like, "I'm just a character."
Christina Kann 29:22
People are people.
Charlie Mack 29:23
Mentally, I wasn't super into that part of it. But when I started like trying to cosplay, you know, I wanted to be a lot of guys because they have comfortable outfits more than girls.
Christina Kann 29:38
Oh, yeah, it's true.
Grace Ball 29:40
Christina Kann 29:41
My little wish list for Halloween costumes -- you know, I'm like, "What am I going to be for Halloween in like four months?" -- I do have a couple guys on there because the billowy shirt game is strong. I guess they're both pirates or something.
Charlie Mack 29:56
Pirates are great, though. Pirates are awesome. Pirates are also queer. Regardless of Our Flag Means Death.
Christina Kann 30:07
Charlie, you probably also really upgraded your pocket space when you started wearing masc clothes for cosplay purposes.
Charlie Mack 30:13
Yeah, because I also just started wearing men's jeans in general.
Christina Kann 30:20
They're just built different.
Charlie Mack 30:22
My mom is just like, "Why don't you wear this old pair of my jeans?" and I'm like, "Your jeans don't have pockets. I can't put my phone in there." And she's like, "I have back pockets." I don't want to put my phone in my back pocket!
Christina Kann 30:35
Oh, I do. I sit on it a LOT, but I have a really squishy butt.
Charlie Mack 30:38
I'll sit on my wallet. Not my phone. I don't know.
Christina Kann 30:42
That is a very masc energy. I would never sit on my wallet. My wallet's a fatty right now. I think that's maybe my problem, that I tote things.
Grace Ball 30:54
You tote things?
Christina Kann 30:55
Yeah, I stay totin. So no pocket will ever suffice.
Grace Ball 30:59
Yeah, you need a whole bag.
Christina Kann 31:01
I wrote down Chapter Six was called The Transmasculine Invisibility Cloak. That's like a great example of how Harry Potter is built into the worlds of this memoir.
Charlie Mack 31:15
I also just, I was reading I don't so much.
Grace Ball 31:18
Yeah, the chapter titles are very fun. I don't know if this is exactly right, so if y'all know, please correct me. But I think they came up with the title kind of late. I think the book was pretty close to being published before they actually named it. Man, I wish I still had a pulled up. Jackson and a group of people had gone through a number of kind of funny titles. A lot of them were like bird puns, which I thought was funny. And then, and then someone had mentioned Sorted, and he kind of brushed it off as cheesy or corny or whatever, and then like later revisited it. I think he had been hesitant because there originally wasn't as much Harry Potter content in the book. I think he was sort of resistant to admitting exactly how much Harry Potter had impacted his whole journey. They must have gone back and sort of baked in some of this Harry Potter stuff that we see now -- at least more of it. I thought that was really interesting. It totally read like the title was the first thing that they started with.
Charlie Mack 32:59
I do see in the acknowledgments it says, "Thank you Katie Riley for originally come out with the title this book, but mostly for feeding me while I wrote it."
Grace Ball 33:09
There you go.
Charlie Mack 33:11
I want to say that's probably his roommate maybe.
Christina Kann 33:16
Even in like a pre-JK-Rowling-is-a-TERF phase of the fandom, it still is a really strong personality choice to be like "Harry Potter is the whole story. Harry Potter means this much to me." I totally understand Jackson getting a real book deal and being like, "Okay, I have to take this seriously. I can't just be gushing about Harry Potter the whole time."
Grace Ball 33:45
Yeah, tone it down.
Charlie Mack 33:46
Imagine if my trans memoir was "Claimed" for Percy Jackson.
Christina Kann 33:52
Oh, my God.
Grace Ball 33:59
When Jackson was thinking about different possible names, his mom had said, "Oh, well, I was originally going to name you, if you're a boy, Harrison." Which, of course, shortened to Harry, and Jackson was like, "I could never! People are gonna think I am losing it!"
Christina Kann 34:21
That's very funny. I'm in a Facebook group called Your Children Are Not Billboards for Your Fandoms, and it's a name shaming group. People are like, "My friend straight-up named her baby Khaleesi, can you believe it?" So many children are named Khaleesi. That's not even her name!
Grace Ball 34:41
Oh no. Yikes.
Charlie Mack 34:45
I have personal things about the whole naming situation. I don't want to like make this all about my trans experience because we're talking about Jackson.
Christina Kann 35:05
Grace Ball 35:05
Christina Kann 35:06
Grace and I don't have trans experience.
Charlie Mack 35:08
I know you don't. I just relate to some of this stuff in here, where he's like, "Oh yeah, I came up with the whole Jack name because of this Mary Sue character that I made up," and I'm just like, "Bro, bro, why are you stealing my experience?" That's kind of where Charlie came from.
Christina Kann 35:33
I love that.
Charlie Mack 35:35
I had a Mary Sue self insert character that I made of myself, and at some point I was like, "Yeah, I guess this character could change gender, I guess that'd be a cool thing I could do." This is before I realized -- this is before I knew nonbinary was a thing, actually. And then I was like, "I guess the masculine version would be Charlie, I guess? I'll go with that." And then that just like, became my name.
Christina Kann 36:05
I think Charlie and Jackson are both excellent names in that they're so mild, you know? They're so classic. They're very pleasant names, both of them.
Charlie Mack 36:17
At least it's not the trope of nonbinary people being named after objects, which I love. But at least, you know, it's just Jackson Bird.
Grace Ball 36:30
It's a very nice, strong name.
Christina Kann 36:36
And that whole naming worry is is like one of those things that I just am so grateful that he wrote this so frankly. I really appreciate the gift of getting to look a little bit into that experience. Because names are so important, and how stressful to have to do it for yourself!
Grace Ball 37:02
I know. One thing I thought was very cool about Jackson's approach to the naming thing is how involved he wanted his mom to be. I thought that was so nice.
Christina Kann 37:19
"This is a lot of parents' jobs, and so I want you to be on the board."
Charlie Mack 37:27
Yeah, I didn't necessarily ask my mom for anything. My middle name is Ryan, and that's what I would have been named if I had been born a boy. I liked that, but I didn't want it to be my first name. I was like, "It's gender neutral enough. Let's go with that for my middle name."
Christina Kann 37:54
My mom asked me for the first time in my life like two days ago if I like my name.
Christina Kann 37:58
Christina Kann 37:59
I was like, "Mom, the word 'Christ' is more than half of my name. I don't like love it but it's definitely my name."
Charlie Mack 38:10
Grace Ball 38:11
Was that just out of nowhere?
Christina Kann 38:14
I feel like it was only medium out of nowhere, not completely out of nowhere. I'm trying to remember. We were sitting in her apartments' leasing office and for some reason it just came up.
Charlie Mack 38:25
Do you want us to call you Christ-tina now?
Christina Kann 38:29
Hard no. But that's probably why I've been introducing myself more and more as Tina lately.
Grace Ball 38:34
Just ditch the rest. Fair enough.
Christina Kann 38:37
Grace, do you like your name? You also have a weirdly Christian name.
Grace Ball 38:40
Yeah, um, I don't know. It's fine.
Christina Kann 38:45
I'm actually gonna talk about your name right now. The funny thing about having a friend named Grace is... My grandma lives in a Catholic retirement home, so I see a lot of like language about grace, prayers for grace or like, whatever they do there. And we've also encountered a lot of grace books, like religious books.
Grace Ball 39:12
Christina Kann 39:13
I swear to god I've encountered a book -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear to god this happened -- called Thirsting for Grace.
Grace Ball 39:19
Christina Kann 39:23
Is it Jesus or is it smut?
Grace Ball 39:28
I can't tell!
Charlie Mack 39:33
I love that. That's just great.
Grace Ball 39:35
Yeah, that's real. That's a little too real. Yeah, so my name is pretty versatile, you could say.
Charlie Mack 39:48
I've probably told you all about this, but my mom nicknamed me Chuckie Cheese now; that's what she calls me.
Grace Ball 39:57
Is that because you're cheesin' all the time?
Charlie Mack 40:00
Because I like Cheez-its like a lot, okay?
Christina Kann 40:06
Grace Ball 40:07
Christina Kann 40:09
I only took three notes for this. So I'm gonna read that. In Chapter Six, The Transmasculine Invisibility Cloak, Jackson talks a lot about how god awful the queer and especially trans representation was in childhood in Texas -- in middle of nowhere, Texas, I assume; everywhere in Texas is the middle of nowhere. It's just something I suspect about Texas. He talks about how most of his queer exposure as a kid were really larger than life people. He specifically mentions David Bowie, Dr. Frank-N-further, and Eddie Izzard, who are three of the most theatrical people. So over the top.
Charlie Mack 40:56
Christina Kann 40:57
And this is also he talks briefly about TERFdom in this chapter, which we're not gonna talk about on this chapter, but it does get mentioned. It's a subject appropriate concept to introduce. This is my last note, and then I'll just start scrolling through our reading guide questions. But I also wrote down that he was taught that bisexuality was a myth as a kid and that bi people simply had to choose one, and I take so much offense to that.
Grace Ball 41:24
Yeah, in his AP bio class or something, right?
Christina Kann 41:30
Oh, my God, you're right about that. Yes.
Grace Ball 41:33
Insane. And then also that like, bi people are more susceptible to the flu?
Charlie Mack 41:40
I have questions.
Christina Kann 41:41
It's because they're making out with twice as many people.
Grace Ball 41:45
Oh my god.
Charlie Mack 41:50
A lot of things, when I learned them, I just have no memory of them. I blame the ADHD for why I just don't remember when I learned what bisexuality was or what transgender was, but I remember in high school having a similar experience to Jackson there. "Oh, yeah, I like guys, so I can't be gay. So I guess I'm straight." And that was it for like, a couple years. And then I was like, "Oh, I guess -- bisexual -- I can like both? Okay, sure." I don't remember how I happened upon the term or that I could like both, but eventually, I figured that out. And then all my friends were also like, "Yeah, I'm also bi."
Christina Kann 42:41
It's pretty easy to be bi. Let me tell ya.
Charlie Mack 42:44
I went to Catholic school, too. At a fucking Catholic school, all the queers hung out. We all hung out by the chapel waiting for our rides at the end of the day.
Grace Ball 42:54
You found each other.
Christina Kann 42:55
Yeah, and let me tell you: if bisexual people could choose one, I think a lot of the time it would just be women, right?
Grace Ball 43:05
I mean, that would make sense.
Charlie Mack 43:08
I think that's the correct choice? I could be wrong.
Grace Ball 43:10
I'm pretty sure.
Christina Kann 43:14
I told my mom I was bisexual when I was 15 because I was mad at her and I was trying to upset her and it was a straight up lie. When I said it, it was just a straight-up lie. I was like, "How can I make her as upset as possible right now?" And joke's on me! Oh my God, it was true.
Charlie Mack 43:29
Joke's on you.
Christina Kann 43:36
The book comes with reading guide questions in the back of it, and it's definitely geared toward a classroom, and it's adorable. "Before the beginning of the book, lead a general discussion about gender." I love it. I really hope that there are a lot of teachers out there teaching this book.
Grace Ball 43:54
Me too. I was wondering about that.
Christina Kann 43:56
I think it'd be appropriate in a high school English class, you know?
Grace Ball 44:00
Yeah, I even think in a college gender study class, this book has a place.
Christina Kann 44:08
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so we have actually had a lot of conversations about gender because I'm close friends with Grace and Charlie. So I'm just gonna scroll to the next question.
Charlie Mack 44:15
Gender is fake.
Christina Kann 44:16
This one's good because it talks about sorting. "In the introduction to Sorted, the author writes 'Growing up as someone who felt different but didn't have the words to describe or understand that difference, I was drawn to labels that could define me in other ways.' What does it mean to be given or to take on a label? How is labeling a form of sorting? Are these labels helpful or important, or as the author writes, 'oppressive and limiting'?"
Christina Kann 44:17
I mean, I feel like they can be both.
Christina Kann 44:25
Yeah, why not both?
Christina Kann 44:26
Why not both?
Charlie Mack 44:28
It's like the whole trope of like, you know, like, middle grade young adult books where it's like, you got the divergents, the Hogwarts, the Percy Jackson. You got the whole "This is your thing," "You're this kind of person."
Christina Kann 45:14
This is our house, where we are nice and dumb!
Charlie Mack 45:17
You have this personality trait, and that's your thing.
Christina Kann 45:22
That's literally the plot of Divergent, and she's like, "What if I could have three personality traits?" She's so cool because of that.
Charlie Mack 45:31
Guess what? Everyone's fucking divergent!
Grace Ball 45:35
Christina Kann 45:38
That premise of dystopian fiction is dumb, and that's why that trend ended. It trended and then it ended.
Charlie Mack 45:49
Labels are helpful in certain contexts. In certain contexts, they are oppressive and limiting. But if you're just trying to say in 10 words or less who you are as a person, labels can be helpful.
Christina Kann 46:07
Like my Instagram bio is like "Hufflepuff, hiker, she/her/hers."
Charlie Mack 46:12
If you're trying to write a bio, labels are like actually helpful.
Christina Kann 46:18
Yeah, you're right about that. That's an interesting perspective. Kind of a lot of my friends are turning 30 and being like, "Well, it's probably about time I get that ADHD diagnosis." And I think labels like that can be helpful because it's like, "Okay, let's try like treatment. And then maybe try some meds." You can only do that with this label.
Charlie Mack 46:39
Bro, I got diagnosed at, like, age six.
Christina Kann 46:44
Good for you! I'm really happy for you.
Grace Ball 46:45
Yeah, that's really good.
Christina Kann 46:47
Yeah. And then sometimes I'm like, "Do I have an anxiety disorder or just regular anxiety?" And in the end, does that matter? Because it's not gonna change anything.
Grace Ball 46:57
Yeah, I still feel the way I feel.
Christina Kann 47:01
I went to like, five therapy sessions to be like, "I think I have anxiety disorder." And she was like, "No, just regular. That's just regular life anxiety." And I was like, "Cool. Okay, glad to know we're all like this."
Grace Ball 47:13
Oh, my gosh. Wow.
Christina Kann 47:18
Obviously, this is a Harry Potter podcast, so this doesn't happen a lot. But every once in a while, I ask a guest, "What is your Hogwarts house?" And they say, "I don't fucking know," or, "I don't care." And that's really valid. I think most recently it was Zac from Belated Binge, where he was like, "I'm a Ravenclaw," let's say, and I was like, "Oh, do you feel like a Ravenclaw?" And he was like, "I don't fucking care." Wow, that's really a valid answer to that. Back in fucking 2020 we had a guest named Claire Haley, who I asked what Hogwarts house they were, and they like invented a new one. It was called Grumblepaw or something.
Grace Ball 48:01
I know naps were involved.
Christina Kann 48:03
Yeah, naps were involved for sure.
Charlie Mack 48:07
Have I ever told y'all that at one point I identified as a Slytherdor because I really wanted to be edgy?
Grace Ball 48:15
Wow. The edgiest combo.
Charlie Mack 48:21
Am I at all a Slytherin?
Christina Kann 48:24
Does it matter? Ugh, labels, am I right? I recently posted -- maybe like two years ago recently -- on my Facebook. I was like, "Wait, guys, am I a Gryffindor?" A lot of people -- not a lot, but definitely some people -- were like, "Oh, it's just whatever you feel in your heart." And definitely my one friend was like, "Who cares? It doesn't matter."
Charlie Mack 48:46
You present yourself as a Gryffindor, but you're not.
Christina Kann 48:49
I'm a Hufflepuff and a Gryffindor rising.
Charlie Mack 48:52
Grace Ball 48:53
Yeah. I thought Jackson's point about labels was a good one. I think he said something like, Labels are meant to help our language be more representative and more... What was the actual word? Accurate. They're not intended to make things more confusing.
Christina Kann 49:16
Grace Ball 49:18
I feel like if people can find comfort in a label that they identify with, I think that's great.
Christina Kann 49:26
Yeah, and that's what it comes down to: the self-sorting aspect of labels. With a couple exclusions, you shouldn't have anyone impose a label on you. Maybe okay, like "felon," that's one that somebody else imposes on you.
Grace Ball 49:58
We'll allow that one.
Christina Kann 49:59
But with identity questions, it doesn't matter what you think at all. Just ask people what they are and believe them when they tell you.
Grace Ball 50:09
Yeah, like, it just does not have to be more complicated than that.
Charlie Mack 50:14
My mom and I have the conversation about labels quite often. When I'm like, "Oh, yeah, this person identifies this way," she's like, "Why are there so many labels? Can't y'all just exist?" And I'm like, "Bro, it's how you can explain yourself to people." Once you know what all the words mean, it's a lot easier.
Christina Kann 50:38
Exactly, exactly. You have to like rewire your brain to incorporate this as part of the many million things that you know how to do.
Charlie Mack 50:46
It's just adding a new word to your dictionary. That's all it is. Just add that word. And you're like, "Cool, I got it."
Christina Kann 50:53
And I think a lot of people probably are afraid of failing, afraid of like getting it wrong. You just have to always be trying, you know, and then messing up doesn't matter as much.
Charlie Mack 51:10
I can understand that. When you're in the middle of questioning yourself, you're just like, "I don't want to identify in one way or the other, because what if I'm incorrect and then I changed my mind?"
Christina Kann 51:21
There's a lot of that in this book.
Charlie Mack 51:24
People do that! It happens all the time. It's scary to change your label. Hey, guess what? I changed my name. That was fucking terrifying. So yeah. Imagine if I had been wrong and been like, "Nah, I'm gonna change it again." There are people who do that.
Christina Kann 51:45
Okay, here's a good discussion question. Thanks for letting me just read the questions at the back of this book. You know, it's my summer vacation. I'm not doing a ton of extra work. I read a book for this.
Charlie Mack 51:58
This is your summer reading.
Christina Kann 52:03
Oh, and it's not too late to get this book and read it for Pride Month or just for any whole month. I'll link to it in the show notes.
Grace Ball 52:11
Christina Kann 52:12
Okay. So I'll paraphrase: When Jackson talks about his decision to "give being a proper girl a shot," how did family and societal pressures and shame and the desire to be perceived as normal contribute to the author's prepubescent phase of presenting as a girl? So I think, more broadly, where does this gender pressure come from? Like, what are we doing to our children?
Charlie Mack 52:42
Like -- God...
Christina Kann 52:45
Part of it is probably God's fault. You're right about that.
Charlie Mack 52:47
I mean, there was a lot about church. "Oh, you got to wear this stuff to church." I don't know if I necessarily said those same things, but I can so relate to what Jackson said as a small child.
Christina Kann 53:04
This book made Charlie feel seen.
Charlie Mack 53:05
It does, it really does. And I'm not even a trans guy, but I very much understand it. I think it's just being an AFAB person. I get it. I get it so hard.
Christina Kann 53:18
Like we mentioned, almost all of this book is Jackson, pre-transition, you know? Pre coming out. So it's mostly just like the feeling that the female assignment is like, not working out, you know what I mean?
Charlie Mack 53:35
I definitely want to hear somebody who's trans femme reading this and seeing how they felt about it, or if they got anything at all out of it. Because I would assume similar things, but also way different, because it's a different set of societal norms they're going with, but it's also still the same. Like, "I feel weird about things. I don't know what I am." You know?
Grace Ball 54:12
And I think Jackson talked kind of a lot about the fact that he did have a lot of internalized transphobia just as a product of where he grew up.
Christina Kann 54:27
I can't imagine this kind of culture. You know, we live in the south, but it's not like that here. I wonder if things would have been different for him just growing up in or near a city.
Charlie Mack 54:45
I definitely didn't feel it as strongly as he did with some of those things going on. I was still definitely allowed to like wear pants or a blazer or something to an event.
Christina Kann 55:01
Blazers are so sharp on everyone.
Charlie Mack 55:04
There were times when I had feminine suits kind of going on. Have I told you all how at my middle school graduation, I showed up wearing a dress with Converse? That was like my thing. I did that.
Christina Kann 55:26
That's what fucking Bella Swan wears to prom at the end of Twilight.
Charlie Mack 55:31
Yeah, it is. It was. It was also right near the Twilight phase too. I don't think it was inspired by her. I think it was more inspired by the Demi Lovato song. "I can still wear converse with my dress." That's a line in that song.
Christina Kann 55:54
Sometimes I'm just like, "Oh, yeah, I'm a couple years older than them, and like, I can feel it." You know?
Grace Ball 55:59
Christina Kann 56:00
Demi Lovato is just a little behind my time.
Charlie Mack 56:03
I'm gonna cry a little, it's fine.
Christina Kann 56:05
I feel like that's what Jackson wore to all of these terrible dances that he kept going to. That was the motif of this story, that he like kept coming back to this one dance. Does anyone remember what it was called? It was named after somebody.
Charlie Mack 56:21
Were you talking about the Harry Potter LeakyCon dance? I went to that, in fact, because I went to LeakyCon. That's the dance in LeakyCon. I met a couple Harry Potter nerds at it.
Christina Kann 56:38
Charlie Mack 56:39
--Who were younger than me, making friends. Some people dress up, some people don't. I just wore like jeans and a sweatshirt because I was a dumbass. And I was like dying.
Christina Kann 56:55
I respect that phrasing.
Charlie Mack 56:57
I wore like a binder, a t-shirt, and a sweatshirt, and I was dying.
Grace Ball 57:02
Christina Kann 57:04
You needed a blazer in that moment.
Charlie Mack 57:07
I don't think I had anything that was dressy, per se, for the occasion. I didn't feel the same pressure that he did for certain events to dress up in dresses. I feel like that ended pretty early on for me, like maybe around middle school. I stopped caring about dresses. It was like, "I'm just gonna wear nice pants and a blouse." I hated the flats. The shoes? The shoes? God, I hate dress shoes. I don't know how y'all feel about things.
Christina Kann 57:48
Grace? This bitch can rock a heel.
Grace Ball 57:52
I love to rock a heel, I gotta say.
Christina Kann 57:53
Grace can wear heels like it's no big deal for so long. It's incredibly impressive.
Grace Ball 58:00
I'm dying inside.
Charlie Mack 58:02
The only heels I've worn are boots.
Christina Kann 58:05
Boot heels is the secret.
Grace Ball 58:07
I do like those.
Christina Kann 58:09
That's when they're not that bad. I'm a tall person, and I weigh a lot. So I've learned to wear a chunky heel. Gotta keep my truck, the base of the trunk of my tree, sturdy. Big old chunky heel.
Christina Kann 58:26
I just flipped open to the page where Jackson was doing an exchange or whatever, and he's questioning his gender, and he asked his roommate, "'Hey, have you heard of--' I squinted back down at the webpage I was reading from. 'GLBT?' She stared at me, probably trying to decide how to patiently respond to my utter lack of knowledge. 'Yes, but I usually call it LGBT.'" And I love that so much. I love that she was like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" And then was like, "Respond respectfully."
Charlie Mack 59:04
Have you not heard of Gay Lettuce Bacon Tomato?
Christina Kann 59:13
Man, question five asks about bras.
Charlie Mack 59:18
Yeah, those are a thing.
Christina Kann 59:22
Wow, we should maybe have like a proper bra wearer on this, because I wear training bras.
Grace Ball 59:30
I certainly don't need anything very serious.
Christina Kann 59:34
There are some people in our friend group who, let's just say, need a bra for like health purposes.
Charlie Mack 59:43
Yeah, bras are a thing that exists.
Christina Kann 59:47
"How did wearing a bra make Jackson feel marked as one of the girls?" There's that bit where they're hanging with a bunch of friends and one of the dudes is like, looking at him, you know, like checking him out?
Charlie Mack 1:00:06
The tank top.
Christina Kann 1:00:10
Fuck that feeling, for starters. "Great, we were friends, and now I'm just a sexual object to you."
Charlie Mack 1:00:18
I don't know if I just don't notice these things, but I just don't notice when people check me out. Maybe that's just like me not wanting to notice, or me just being oblivious.
Christina Kann 1:00:28
I just make a lot of noise, so people are always looking at me, and I'm like, "Look at all these people checking me out!"
Charlie Mack 1:00:38
At some point in my life, I was like, "Yeah, I want to have okay boobs." And now I'm just like, "Nope."
Christina Kann 1:00:59
I have heard that they're a lot to deal with. "On page 50, Jackson says, 'I want to believe that kids are born without judgment and that gender variance seems natural to them, but I suppose the prejudice of the world can seep in at a very early age.' What are examples of prejudices and attitudes that seep into children as they develop?" I feel like I actually already asked this question, but it's worded differently here.
Charlie Mack 1:01:26
Oh, just because this question is reminding me of a situation. I used to work at the movie theater, and I got a couple of different kids who asked me, "Are you a boy or girl?" And I just responded, "Does it matter?"
Christina Kann 1:01:44
Both? Both. Why not both?
Charlie Mack 1:01:47
I don't know if they heard me or if their parents heard me, but they left.
Christina Kann 1:01:54
Charlie Mack 1:01:57
Just was ignored. My answer was ignored.
Christina Kann 1:02:01
It doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't. And that's the truth of it. Grace and I run into this sometimes when we're editing books: a lot of the times authors are like, "In this car there's a driver, and then in the next car, it's a female driver." All the time.
Christina Kann 1:02:20
It happens literally all the time. It's never like, "And behind that one, a male driver." No, especially if you're doing something masc coded. "There was two fishermans and then a lady fisher." Obviously, that's not working for anyone. They'll always tell you if they're in books! "Five guards ran in; two of them were women." You know what you call a female guard?
Grace Ball 1:02:20
Christina Kann 1:02:53
You call her a guard.
Christina Kann 1:02:54
You call them a guard! The fact that she's female in this moment where the king is being held at swordpoint does not matter.
Grace Ball 1:03:02
Could not matter less.
Christina Kann 1:03:06
If you just use the right pronouns, like them, like fine, you're fine.
Grace Ball 1:03:10
It doesn't have to be explicitly pointed out. I don't understand. It does happen so consistently. What is that about? Why is that the instinct?
Charlie Mack 1:03:24
Gender, man. Why?
Christina Kann 1:03:29
This is why it can be harmful to only assign classic books to kids, because of the way they use language. If you talk about more contemporary books with your students or your kids or whatever, then you're exposing them to our more up-to-date and inclusive and understanding way of using language as a whole, you know? Back in like Agatha Christie books, you better believe if one of the guards is female, we need to talk about that.
Grace Ball 1:04:03
Yeah, that's true.
Christina Kann 1:04:05
Let's talk about how Jackson came out like so slowly over the second half of the book.
Grace Ball 1:04:13
Christina Kann 1:04:14
I feel like so much of it is him, first of all, trying to figure it out himself, trying to come out to himself. I was thinking about how we talk about how Ron Weasley is always the last one to know what he's going through. And I kind of felt that same energy with Jackson, at least from this perspective, where we know he's trans all along. So much of it, I was like, "Just try it! Like, just try it out. I think you'd really like it."
Charlie Mack 1:04:44
Try it. You'll like it.
Grace Ball 1:04:49
Yeah, I thought that Jackson's situation was obviously unique in that he had this YouTube platform. I think that made the coming out process a little more complicated, because it's not like he had a choice. He already had this following, and it's not like he could just transition without any explanation.
Christina Kann 1:05:29
He had to collaborate with a social media planner to make it right.
Grace Ball 1:05:36
Which is, like, really interesting. But I also think that it was very cool, because I think that, that probably helped a lot of people, the fact that they were able to watch his video, and see that. So I think it was good. But I can't imagine how difficult that was, though.
Christina Kann 1:05:59
Yeah. He made a spreadsheet with who he was coming out to when.
Grace Ball 1:06:07
And didn't he also have like a packet that he distributed?
Christina Kann 1:06:12
Wait, I respect it.
Grace Ball 1:06:13
I respect that too. I'm sure you're answering so many of the same baseline questions with every person you talk to,
Christina Kann 1:06:23
Grace, that's why I'm writing this book about publishing right now, so we can just stop repeating ourselves. I'm gonna write it down one time really good, and you guys are gonna stop asking me!
Grace Ball 1:06:32
It's gonna I save us so much time.
Christina Kann 1:06:36
So I respect the hell out of a packet. This is your intake paperwork.
Charlie Mack 1:06:41
I wish I'd had stuff like that. I'm jealous of the spreadsheet, especially. "I gotta tell these people before I put it on social media and shit."
Grace Ball 1:06:56
I'm an overthinker, too, and Jackson is admittedly an overthinker.
Christina Kann 1:07:00
Grace Ball 1:07:04
He really thought a lot about the ripple effect of coming out and how it was gonna affect the people that he went to high school with, and the people that he interacted with: family members, friends, whatever, whatever. And so, the fact that he went about it so methodically, that is that is the strategy that I can relate to so much to get through something like that, to have like a system. I thought that was like so relatable.
Christina Kann 1:07:39
Honestly, this is just a great example of a creator taking their platform really responsibly too. He really thought about, like you mentioned, how it affects everyone, his big network and his following online. He was like, "Here's some resources," and it's just nice. I love seeing responsible use of platform.
Grace Ball 1:08:02
Me too. I love to see it.
Charlie Mack 1:08:06
Just like the way that he thought about all these little things, how it would affect his family and all of these little dynamics -- I thought about that a little bit, and then I was just like, "Yeah, I don't really care enough. Honestly, I just want to exist as me at this point." I just like stopped caring about that.
Grace Ball 1:08:30
I think that's good, though. Because you simply cannot go around caring that much all the time.
Charlie Mack 1:08:39
I cared when I was telling I think my parents and a little bit with my grandparents, and then I just like slowly cared less less about what people thought.
Christina Kann 1:08:55
Everything that you care about, you will eventually slowly care less.
Charlie Mack 1:09:01
This doesn't aeffect shit, but also the fact that y'all are just gonna keep deadnaming slashed dead-- I was about to say "deadpronouning." That's not a thing.
Christina Kann 1:09:14
Wait, I feel like it should be.
Charlie Mack 1:09:15
It should be.
Christina Kann 1:09:17
Oh, it's misgendering.
Charlie Mack 1:09:23
I failed at being transgender this one time.
Christina Kann 1:09:25
I think it's funny that Jackson talked about how his one coming out fuckup was just sending a very casual email to his brother. And his brother was like, "I'm flying down there." But even that was still pleasant, because it was like, "Yeah, we bonded. I explained it, and he felt better."
Grace Ball 1:09:45
Didn't his brother like, wildly misinterpret?
Charlie Mack 1:09:49
It was weird how his brother misinterpreted it.
Christina Kann 1:09:53
I think he was just like, "Whoa, you need to explain yourself."
Charlie Mack 1:09:58
Because he was like, "Why can't you just express yourself like these other people? Why do you have to go all out and change everything?"
Grace Ball 1:10:06
Yeah, he just kind of misunderstood the whole thing. Yeah, but it sounded like that ended up being a really good experience in the end.
Christina Kann 1:10:17
I feel like Jackson was just like, "Trust me when I say that =I've really thought about this, and I'm very sure about this, and I just need your support."
Charlie Mack 1:10:29
I like that his family was all good about things. I liked that.
Christina Kann 1:10:35
Pretty much. And how about those friends who helped him get his first short haircut?
Grace Ball 1:10:42
I think that was my favorite part of the book. We haven't talked about our favorite parts, but I love that. Laurie and Matt, or Lauren and Matt or something? They were so nice.
Charlie Mack 1:10:52
Lauren is also a Harry Potter creator who I saw at LeakyCon. Lauren Fairweather. She does YouTube videos.
Christina Kann 1:10:53
I'm going to be linking a bunch of stuff in the blog post that I'm gonna put in the show notes for this episode, including that creator and anything we've talked about today, any of the resources we've used. And I also want to include a couple of resources. We were talking about the packet that Jackson came out with and stuff like that, and I know there's resources like that online, so I'll link some of those.
Charlie Mack 1:11:33
There are also several links in his book, where he's just like, "Hey, if you want more information on this, here's where I got stuff. Look up this." The fact that he cites sources in the fucking book.
Christina Kann 1:11:43
I respect it.
Charlie Mack 1:11:44
Christina Kann 1:11:46
He must be Ravenclaw, right?
Charlie Mack 1:11:47
He's a Gryffindor.
Grace Ball 1:11:51
Charlie Mack 1:11:52
He was like, "Oh, I'm a Ravenclaw" when he was a kid, and then he was like, "Nah, apparently, I'm a Gryffindor."
Christina Kann 1:11:58
Everyone thinks they're a Ravenclaw, I feel like, at the beginning.
Charlie Mack 1:12:00
I've never, never thought I was a Ravenclaw.
Christina Kann 1:12:04
Well, that's because you don't have enough self confidence. When I was in high school, I was like, "I'm the smartest person here and I'm definitely a Ravenclaw," and even had a shirt. But I'm not a Ravenclaw.
Grace Ball 1:12:18
There's some Ravenclaw there.
Charlie Mack 1:12:20
See, I'm the person who will "um actually" you, but I also don't have the self confidence to be like, "I know better." What were we talking about before?
Christina Kann 1:12:35
I found the name of it! It's the Esther Earl Charity Ball.
Charlie Mack 1:12:39
Christina Kann 1:12:42
That's what we were talking about probably 20 minutes ago.
Charlie Mack 1:12:44
Yeah. Oh, about the hair cut. I love that. I also went through a hair journey. I'm just gonna keep bringing up my stuff.
Grace Ball 1:12:56
Do it do it do it.
Christina Kann 1:12:56
Bring up all your stuff.
Charlie Mack 1:12:58
This is this is actually the Charlie's Trans Experience episode, if you didn't realize.
Christina Kann 1:13:02
Sorted: Charlie's Trans Experience.
Charlie Mack 1:13:06
So I used to have my hair all the way down to like my butt crack.
Grace Ball 1:13:10
Charlie Mack 1:13:10
It was like, long shit. You see how short it is now?
Christina Kann 1:13:18
I could have done such a good braid on it.
Charlie Mack 1:13:20
I've never known how to braid. My mom didn't know how to braid. I don't know how to braid. It was not well taken care of. I didn't know what to do with it.
Grace Ball 1:13:30
When did you chop it?
Charlie Mack 1:13:31
In middle school I started doing Locks of Love, where I would cut it down to my shoulders, and then it would make some wigs, and then I would grow it back out again. And I did that a couple times over. And then in college, I started experimenting with different haircuts because I was like, "I want to try something out different." I got a little bit shorter, a little bit more layered. And then it slowly just kept getting shorter and shorter as I started to figure out gender things. I did not think I would ever get to be this short. When I first got this haircut, it was almost down to the skin.
Christina Kann 1:14:15
It's a high and tight. Is that what they're called? Did I make that up? Is that real?
Charlie Mack 1:14:24
I don't know. It's a fade. That's what I got. It's a fade.
Christina Kann 1:14:28
It looks great. I love it a lot. It has a lot of character.
Charlie Mack 1:14:31
So do I.
Grace Ball 1:14:34
I did think it was interesting, Jackson's experience getting the haircut. Obviously he traveled to go to someone who would actually do what he wanted because all these hairdressers are like, "You don't really want that."
Charlie Mack 1:14:51
Christina Kann 1:14:51
I love that so much.
Christina Kann 1:14:51
I love that he says, "If you have the choice between cunty Karen soccer mom or little boy, go for little boy."
Charlie Mack 1:14:55
That's just like really a thing with hairdressers. Y'all know how bad I am at talking to people. I'm a podcaster and I'm bad at talking to people. When I go to get my hair cut, I'm bad at being like, "No, I want it shorter."
Grace Ball 1:15:29
Christina Kann 1:15:31
God, even I'm bad at that. I'm bad at that. It's hard.
Grace Ball 1:15:34
It's one of the hardest ones.
Christina Kann 1:15:37
There's a Bob's Burgers bit about that, obviously.
Charlie Mack 1:15:41
My old coworker, who used to deliver pizzas with me, she's now a hairdresser, an actual official hairdresser. So I just say, "Hey, can you cut my hair?" And then I went over to her house at nine o'clock at night and she cut my hair.
Grace Ball 1:15:59
Awesome. That's really awesome.
Charlie Mack 1:16:01
Yeah. And then I can actually talk to someone about what I want.
Christina Kann 1:16:06
It's very important. I just cut my own bangs, so we figure it out together.
Grace Ball 1:16:11
You and your bangs?
Christina Kann 1:16:13
Yeah. So it's about time to wrap it on up. Before we go, I was wondering who was your favorite person in this book? Your favorite non-Jackson person?
Grace Ball 1:16:24
Oh, great question.
Charlie Mack 1:16:26
I need like a list of characters.
Grace Ball 1:16:29
Really good question. I'm gonna keep complimenting the question.
Christina Kann 1:16:34
There weren't a bunch of named extra characters. You get to know his family a little bit. The book ends with him going to his high school reunion, and being scared, and then being like, "I'm not going to be scared anymore." And he talks about how he had like a little support group of friends, and they all went together.
Charlie Mack 1:16:58
So which one of those friends is your favorite?
Christina Kann 1:17:01
No, they're all my favorite!
Charlie Mack 1:17:02
That doesn't count, Christina!
Christina Kann 1:17:04
He left his glasses in the car, and they walked back with him. They were like, "We're not leaving your side. We got you on this." And I just love all of them.
Charlie Mack 1:17:12
That's cheating your own question.
Christina Kann 1:17:14
The real answer to this question was the friends we made along the way?
Grace Ball 1:17:18
Charlie Mack 1:17:19
Maybe his roommate. I liked that she was supportive about things. She's just like, "No, I'm not gonna kick you out. I understand that you're like trans and all that. Like, it's cool. I'm gonna like help you figure some things out."
Christina Kann 1:17:34
How scary for Jackson that he even worried about that.
Grace Ball 1:17:38
I know. Yeah. I'll go with mom just because she was there from day one, and I felt like she had some missteps, but overall, I liked her.
Christina Kann 1:17:54
Yeah, she had a journey. The waistcoat thing does really tickle me.
Grace Ball 1:17:59
Christina Kann 1:18:00
I love the Jackson like came out to his mom -- they were Prosecco drunk together on the couch, and he kept trying to say it. I love it so much. It felt very like Gilmore Girls.
Grace Ball 1:18:15
Yeah, I see that.
Christina Kann 1:18:17
That's kind of the end of it. Do either of you have anything that you want to drive home or any any final thoughts about Sorted by Jackson Bird?
Grace Ball 1:18:26
I mean, I'm just gonna reiterate to listen to the audiobook. I think that it's really cool and special when authors narrate their own books. And I think this is a particularly good one to listen to. So if you haven't read it yet, or if you want to read it again in an audio form, do it!
Christina Kann 1:18:46
Hell yeah. Are we ready to move on to plugs?
Grace Ball 1:18:51
Christina Kann 1:18:53
I'm gonna make you do Pride Month plugs, so it's got to be some queer! Charlie, where can people listen to your dulcet tones?
Charlie Mack 1:19:02
Oh, well, thank you. As mentioned earlier, I have my podcast Of the Eldest Gods, which is Percy Jackson related shit. We're gonna be on Titan's Curse by the time this comes out. And then I also have my other podcast with my mom, Fandoms Gone Wrong, where we talk about media and things that we like. It's good shit. I'm @greenpixie12 most places, except for Twitter where I'm @greenpixie123. I have my drawing Instagram at @greenpixiedraws. And I have my YouTube as @charliemack.
Christina Kann 1:19:55
What's your Pride Month plug, baby?
Charlie Mack 1:19:59
I am technically not caught up yet, but I hopefully will be by the time this comes out. The Owl House had the season two finale recently. I might have looked up spoilers already. That's really good and that's pretty queer. It's got a fucking nonbinary character in it. And also the main character is bi, and her girlfriend is a lesbian. We got some good shit in there. You like magic shit? Wou like magical school shit, that also kind of blatantly makes fun of Harry Potter? Watch The Owl House. They have a sorting system, and they have a game that they play that's like Quidditch, but they make fun of the snitch. It's great.
Christina Kann 1:20:59
Thank you so much for that recommendation. Grace, where can people find you and/or maybe Wildling?
Grace Ball 1:21:07
Yes, whenever I plug anything, it's gonna be Wildling Press. Yeah, so follow Wildling Press @wildlingpress, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. LinkedIn?
Christina Kann 1:21:24
Grace Ball 1:21:27
Okay, sure. Anyway, connect with us. Come check us out. And I just want to note, if we ever have a book, like Sorted come across our desks, that will be the day. I would be so so happy.
Christina Kann 1:21:43
We would love to publish something like this.
Charlie Mack 1:21:45
I'll come out with my memoir next.
Grace Ball 1:21:51
Yeah! So if you're listening to this episode, obviously, you're interested in transgender memoirs. I have another one that I have read that I would like to recommend to you. It's by Janet Mock, and it's called Redefining Realness. It's been some time since I read it, but it was really informative for me, and I think it's a really good representation of a person of color's experience as a transgender woman. 'I definitely recommend it. So check it out.
Christina Kann 1:22:38
Awesome. Thank you. I'm your host, Christina. And you know where to find me; just click on my LinkTree thing. It's always in the show notes. I'm just gonna throw out some names of some of my favorite queer books I've read, I don't know, until I say too many books. Okay, I recently read The House in the Cerulean Sea by TJ Clune, which is very fun. That's like magic children in a little magic orphanage. And it's gay. The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid was very pleasant, very surprising. Scroll, scroll scroll. Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao is a very cool sci-fi. I think a lot of people have plugged it on this podcast before. It's got some poly stuff. It's like a sci-fi Power Rangers Mulan situation. Right now I'm rereading Fun Home by Alison Bechdel, "a family tragiccomic." That one's a classic graphic novel; I pretty much recommend it to everyone. There's Red, White, and Royal Blue by Casey McQuinston, which is a very spicy little rom com. And then finally, I'm going to recommend Nimona by ND Stevenson. It's a another graphic novel. It's a cute little fantasy situation. It's hard to explain. Anyway, read all of those books and reach out if you want more queer lit recommendations for Pride Month because I got them.
Charlie Mack 1:24:11
We like that queer shit over here.
Christina Kann 1:24:14
I like that queer shit. I just read a lot, and I pretty much am not interested in books that don't have queer representation anymore.
Grace Ball 1:24:20
I think that's good.
Charlie Mack 1:24:21
Very valid. Love that.
Christina Kann 1:24:24
Yeah! Read new books, read new books by cool new authors. And that's the way the news goes. I don't know how to end episodes. Oh, wait! I forgot to say Charlie, thank you for coming on this episode. I appreciate you so much.
Charlie Mack 1:24:40
Thank you for letting me make you read a book.
Grace Ball 1:24:43
Yeah, thank you, Charlie, for bringing this book to us.
Christina Kann 1:24:47
Now you have to read Nimona, because that's the book I gave you.
Charlie Mack 1:24:50
I know. I know. We're gonna do a book club. You and me.
Christina Kann 1:24:54
And Grace, thank you for also reading a book for us.
Grace Ball 1:25:01
Man, I had so much fun.
Christina Kann 1:25:03
We always ask people to read books, but it's usually very slowly, one book over a whole year. So asking someone to read a book just for one day feels like a lot, so I appreciate you.
Grace Ball 1:25:12
Of course, any old time.
Christina Kann 1:25:13
And that's the way the news goes.
Michael Boothby, Grace Ball, Christina Kann
Christina Kann (voiceover) 00:02
"They trudged up the misty field between long rows of tents. Most looked almost ordinary. Their owners had clearly tried to make them as Muggle-like as possible but had slipped up by adding chimneys or bell poles or weather vanes. However, here and there was a tent so obviously magical that Harry could hardly be surprised that Mr. Roberts was getting suspicious. Halfway up the field stood an extravagant confection of striped silk like a miniature palace with several live peacocks tethered at the entrance; a little farther on, they passed a tent that had three floors and several turrets; and a short way beyond that was a tent that had a front garden attached, complete with birdbath sundial and fountain."
Christina Kann (voiceover) 01:03
What's up, Pott-heads? Welcome to The Restricted Section. It's a show in which a bunch of nerds with potty mouths reread the Harry Potter series for the umpteenth time and discuss how the story and its themes have stayed with a generation into adulthood. Thank you for being here today. If you haven't done the reading, don't worry, we did it for you. Here's what we're talking about today.
Christina Kann (voiceover) 01:23
Chapter Seven: Bagman and Crouch. In this chapter, the Weasleys, Harry and Hermione settle into their campsite. We get to see more of the greater wizarding community in this one chapter than in literally all of the previous books combined. We also get to meet Ludo Bagman, Head of the Department of Magical Games and Sports, and Barty Crouch, Head of the Department of International Magical Cooperation. The day wears on until finally it's time! It's time to go to the Quidditch World Cup. Tune in next week for the game.
Christina Kann 02:00
Welcome to The Restricted Section, where old men wear flowing, flowery night gowns to get a healthy breeze around their privates sometimes! I'm joined today by my friend Grace! Say hello to the listeners, Grace.
Grace Ball 02:13
Hello, listeners. I am pleased as punch to be here.
Christina Kann 02:17
Yes. And our special guest today is none other than Michael Boothby from the Movie Night Crew! Say hello to the listeners, Michael.
Michael Boothby 02:26
Hello, listeners. Thank you for listening to me on this other podcasts on the network.
Christina Kann 02:33
Thank you for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about your very Harry history? When did you get into the books? When did you get in the movies? Who helped you along the way?
Michael Boothby 02:44
Reading Harry Potter was like one of my favorite experiences as a kid. Growing up, I always loved reading. I read Lord of the Rings when I was probably in like third grade or so, you know. And so I'd always loved reading, and Harry Potter was like, obviously one of my favorites. I still remember when the books were coming out. I remember when Goblet of Fire came out, and we went to the store and got the book and you'd be up all night just like reading it, tearing through the pages -- which, like, people probably don't do at all anymore, right? Like what's a book anymore? Right?
Christina Kann 03:21
We're the wrong people for that.
Michael Boothby 03:24
Well, yeah, I don't know Zoomers. I don't know. Everything's on the screen now. And we didn't grow up with screens; we grew up with books and Nintendo 64.
Christina Kann 03:33
It's true, and it's also true that definitely I don't think any books are nearly as anticipated and savored as these books were in their day.
Michael Boothby 03:42
Oh, it was nuts. I mean, I think the only thing I can really kind of compare it to now is when Game of Thrones was on TV. Even though I'd already kind of read the books until it got to the point where they would surpass the books, which never happened with Harry Potter, thank God. But it's that same kind of energy, right? When the books came out, it was such a big deal. I was awful, actually. I was really awful because when Order of the Phoenix came out -- I remember I spent like the next few days reading the books -- and I end up spoiling that Sirius Black dies to my sister. And she still does not forgive me for that. And I get it.
Grace Ball 04:27
That's a deep wound.
Christina Kann 04:27
Yeah, that's pretty rough.
Michael Boothby 04:29
I was being a stupid little boy.
Christina Kann 04:33
We all have Harry Potter drama and trauma. Yeah. So Michael, what Hogwarts house are you, if you had to pick one or a couple?
Michael Boothby 04:43
Oh, I think a few months ago you sent me the the link to the quiz. I'd never done it before. I think I was a Hufflepuff.
Christina Kann 04:55
Yay! I lovingly accept you into House Hufflepuff.
Michael Boothby 04:59
Christina Kann 05:00
That tracks. You're very like friendship driven, very easy to get along with.
Grace Ball 05:06
Yeah, a very welcoming person
Michael Boothby 05:08
Yeah, I think so. The other one that might have been me is Ravenclaw. That's more kind of like intelligent, really brainy, and cunning, right?
Christina Kann 05:23
That would have been, I think, my second guess for you is Ravenclaw because of your interest in the arts and stuff. I'll allow it. We love a Ravenpuff on this show. Our guest last week was Ravenpuff also, our friend Anna. It's a bit of like a Luna Lovegood vibe, and honestly, Michael, I see that for you.
Michael Boothby 05:42
Yeah, definitely. When I think of Luna Lovegood, I'm like, "That's the person who I want to be friends with." Like, she's so weird, like really out there, but so just like kind hearted, means well, loves her friends, you know?
Christina Kann 05:59
Yeah, something that you and Luna Lovegood have in common is that I really do feel like I could kind of say pretty much anything to you, and you'd be like, "Cool! Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. I'd love to talk about that."
Michael Boothby 06:10
Grace Ball 06:11
Just zero judgment.
Christina Kann 06:12
Yeah. Yeah, zero judgment zone
Michael Boothby 06:14
Definitely. I'm definitely that kind of guy who -- I mean, I pride myself on encouraging other people to be comfortable expressing themselves. I mean, you know, my background is in performing and teaching improv, and that's what it is. I'm always just trying to yes-and my friends and life in general, you know? It's more fun that way.
Christina Kann 06:36
Yeah. Oh my gosh, absolutely. And actually just a little bit of podcast lore for the listeners, we know Michael because he met Brooke while they were both traveling in New Zealand, which I think is so cool.
Michael Boothby 06:49
Christina Kann 06:50
And then you guys both ended up back here in Richmond.
Michael Boothby 06:53
Yeah, yeah, we did. I mean, she was from here, you know? It was funny cuz my sisters moved here probably like six years ago now. And I would come and visit them for like holidays and stuff, and I would go and meet up with Brooke and get coffee and stuff, and we'd talk about life in Chicago and all of that. So it was so cool when I finally ended up here. I'm like, "Hey dude, I'm moving to Richmond." She was like, "Okay, cool. Come meet my friends." You know?
Christina Kann 07:20
Did you talk about life in Chicago just because it interested you? Or did you live in Chicago?
Michael Boothby 07:25
I lived in Chicago. Yeah. When I came back from New Zealand, I was like living back with my parents in Florida for like, probably only a month. And then it was like, "I'm going to Chicago" because I wanted to perform. I mean, I wanted to like be on SNL and all that. Yeah.
Christina Kann 07:42
And living with parents in Florida is a vibe.
Michael Boothby 07:46
It is a vibe. I actually did an activity earlier that made me feel like I still live with my parents, which was watching the local news at six and then watching NBC Nightly News at 6:30. I did that tonight, and I'm like, "Whoa, are my parents here? What's going on?" Because I would never do that. I don't ever watch the news. And I did tonight. It was obviously so many horrible things. You know, there's nothing good on the news.
Christina Kann 08:14
Yes, right. It's not great for self-care to watch the news.
Michael Boothby 08:18
No, you know, and they're not telling you anything that you don't already know. It's like, oh, like a school shooting. And even the newscasters at this point are like, "I can't believe this keeps happening. But it happened again." God, dang it. Really?
Grace Ball 08:34
Yeah. Definitely doom and gloom.
Michael Boothby 08:36
Yeah America being America, which is why we read books about wizards.
Christina Kann 08:42
Right! Yes, absolutely. Let's enter that fantasy land. But we're gonna start with an email! That's not very fantastical. Okay. It has been a while, I think, since we've read an email from our beloved friend Mats. But Mats has sent us an email. He actually sent this a couple of weeks ago and I was like, "I'm going to save it for this chapter." This is a little bit of a spoiler alert for what happens later in this chapter, even though we're all spoilers all the time. Here's this email from Mats. Mats says, "Did you know that Ludo Bagman canonically owns half an eel farm? In Goblet of Fire chapter seven Bagman and Crouch--" which is the chapter we're covering today-- "Ludo bagman reveals that, 'little Agatha Tim's has put up half shares in her eel farm on a week long match'--" Betting that the World Cup will take a week to play out. "Which we know did not happen, as a certain Bulgarian seeker decided that he was going to catch the Snitch early despite his team being down by a very manageable amount of points. And no professional athlete in the world could ever make that decision, especially not in the World Cup final. Okay, I'm done. (I'm totally not still mad at this about this. Why are you asking?) Anyway, Krum catching the Snitch early made sure that Ludo Bagman won his bet and gained half an eel farm. Not 100% sure if I call that a win necessarily, but that could just be me. I will never not find it funny that Ludo Bagman owns half an eel farm." Mats keeps saying the phrase "half an eel farm" because it is extremely ridiculous.
Christina Kann 08:55
I think that's important. It is only half.
Christina Kann 09:59
"What does he do? Did he just retire from his ministry job to become an eel farmer full time? I like to picture bagman walking up to those goblins with whom he was betting trying to bribe them with a bag of eels."
Michael Boothby 10:34
Oh my gosh.
Grace Ball 10:35
Oh my god. Wow, love that.
Christina Kann 10:41
They mention that bet in this chapter.
Michael Boothby 10:43
I'm trying to find it because I remember when I was rereading it, I was like, "This is kind of wild."
Christina Kann 10:49
It is wild!
Michael Boothby 10:49
This is something that as a kid like I didn't really get it, but now that I've actually like traded stocks -- I've done a little bit of gambling -- I'm like, "Whoa, what's going on here?"
Grace Ball 11:01
I'd take that bet.
Michael Boothby 11:04
I think honestly my favorite part of this chapter was when the guy's like, "Who wants to get some bets?" and some people are like, "Meh," and then Fred is just like, "Yo, here's all the money we have." They're like, "Oh, Ireland will win but Krum's gonna catch the Snitch," and then he's like, "Oh, like that would ever happen. I'll give you a good odds." I forget if that's what does happen. I feel like maybe it does. I don't know.
Grace Ball 11:29
Michael Boothby 11:29
Okay, is this how Fred and George got the money to start their shop? In this crazy bet?
Christina Kann 11:35
*singing to Hamilton tune* Just you wait, just you wait. Better read along! *end singing* Anyway, thank you so much, Mats, for that email. Thank you for really highlighting this thing that I think we all have passed over in reading several times before, and we might have you been passed over in today's conversation but it is super ridiculous and it deserves to be underlined.
Grace Ball 11:53
I agree completely.
Michael Boothby 11:54
I love that.
Grace Ball 11:55
And doesn't Bagman like kind of go away because he owes all of these people money and stuff?
Christina Kann 12:03
He goes away to the farm.
Grace Ball 12:03
He goes he goes on the eel instead of on the lam. That was a terrible joke I take it all back.
Christina Kann 12:14
Yeah, I was gonna say that they sent him to a farm upstate.
Michael Boothby 12:19
Is that what happens?
Christina Kann 12:21
Isn't that a euphemism for putting down your dog?
Grace Ball 12:23
Yes. But what does an eel farmer do? I mean, I guess you can sell eel on the market.
Christina Kann 12:35
Eels live in the water. Just as a reminder to everyone, they're aquatic creatures.
Grace Ball 12:39
Christina Kann 12:40
And one time I visited my friend who lives in Alaska. She is a psychiatrist, I think, in Alaska, in Sitka, which is an island on the southern coast. And her boyfriend at the time worked for a salmon hatchery, basically a salmon farm. They would like raise -- they would like, egg up -- like, grow -- grow eel -- no! salmon -- I'm getting really turned around now. They would grow salmon eggs and then like release the salmon into the ocean, and then the salmon would come back to mate, because they go back to mate where they were born, and they would harvest all the salmon and it was incredibly metal -- and by "metal" I mean there were metal baseball bats that they would use to club these salmons over the head. It was extreme. So that's what I picture, this eel farm, but even more metal because they are electrical.
Michael Boothby 13:37
Do they club them with like magical spell clubs?
Christina Kann 13:42
Like anti electric clubs.
Michael Boothby 13:44
Grace Ball 13:45
I cannot picture Ludo bagman doing that, I'm sorry.
Christina Kann 13:48
Wasn't he a beater? Just saying.
Grace Ball 13:50
Oh my god, wait. You're right. 100%.
Michael Boothby 13:51
He definitely could! Oh he's definitely clubbing those eels.
Grace Ball 13:53
I just felt like in that moment he was too silly to be doing that, but you're right, he does have a history of clubbing.
Michael Boothby 13:59
Maybe this was always just like a passion of his, you know? Even like back when he was a beater he was just by the ocean one day and it just kind of became his side hustle. And then he slowly was working his way to getting a whole eel farm and just he never made it.
Christina Kann 14:20
After Ludo Bagman runs away in shame after he can't pay his debts, I imagine like a "Where is he now??" and it's just "You can find me in da club," and it's him like on the rocky coast with like an eel bashing club slash beater bat.
Michael Boothby 14:37
This sounds like a very specific like Robot Chicken sketch, What Happened to Ludo Bagman?
Christina Kann 14:46
Robot Chicken freaks me out, but that is a weirdly flattering compliment on a joke. I'm like, "Okay, so it's uncomfortable, but like pretty funny."
Michael Boothby 14:54
I think so.
Christina Kann 14:57
So this chapter starts with they just took the portkey two chapters ago, so like not the last chapter and not the last chapter. The chapter before that. Brooke was on, and I was complaining about how we have all these buildup chapters in the beginning. Brooke made a very funny joke about how, much like a flan, we are now perfectly set. It was really good. But I just want to point out that it is now like several chapters later, and we are still setting. The flan has over set.
Grace Ball 15:27
Christina Kann 15:30
I'm gonna isolate that sound clip. I'm gonna make it my alarm.
Grace Ball 15:36
You're running late, Christina, you're overproved!
Christina Kann 15:41
So they've all arrived on a stretch of misty moor. I can just picture Liz Bennett declining marriage proposal on this misty moor.
Grace Ball 15:52
Michael Boothby 15:53
I think I've been camping in this place, you know? Not that place, but I think I've definitely pitched a tent in some misty field for some festival.
Christina Kann 16:02
The festival vibes in this are so good. I really was like relating to this chapter a lot because Sean and I have been to a lot of music festivals, and it's the exact same energy. It sounds so fun. Okay, but we'll get there.
Michael Boothby 16:17
Christina Kann 16:19
There are two wizards standing there to welcome them. They're dressed very poorly in muggle incognito. They should have just worn wizard outfits because it's like, "Oh, that person is wearing a strange outfit, but at least they literally know what an outfit is."
Grace Ball 16:36
Christina Kann 16:36
You know what I mean? Yeah, so they direct the Weasleys in the Diggorys to their respective campsites. And they go to the campsite and the campsite manager, Mr. Roberts--
Grace Ball 16:48
Christina Kann 16:49
My man. I respect the hell out of him. This man's a Ravenclaw. He's like, "Something's not right here. I swear to god."
Michael Boothby 16:57
Yeah, yeah, he's a very suspicious Muggle.
Grace Ball 17:02
As he should be. People are not subtle here.
Michael Boothby 17:05
Yeah, he was like, "I've done a lot of festivals in my day, but is the magic seems too real at this one."
Grace Ball 17:13
Mr. Roberts is like, "I am super high right now but still really weird."
Christina Kann 17:19
So he asks for them to pay and Harry's helping Arthur count out muggle money.
Michael Boothby 17:25
I love this part. I love that part so much. I love Mr. Weasley just like being like, "How do muggle? What do I do?"
Christina Kann 17:36
But you know how to, like, count, right? Like these have numbers on them.
Michael Boothby 17:39
Yeah! That's what I was saying. Even Harry was like, "There's a five on there."
Christina Kann 17:45
Harry probably has never held muggle money either, real money. Maybe like learning about it in school.
Michael Boothby 17:52
You don't think you don't think that he just -- I don't know. You think the dursleys gave him an allowance? Probably not.
Christina Kann 18:01
Michael Boothby 18:02
Christina Kann 18:03
He's been saving rogue coins from over the years and now he has like 10 muggle dollars.
Michael Boothby 18:07
Ones that he's found in the vacuum over the years.
Christina Kann 18:12
Mr. Roberts is like, "All these people are really weird. They seem to know each other." It really is like someone's having a rave and the property owner doesn't know, you know? It's like, "I've seen so many asses today. This is not a family reunion." A wizard Apparates into the scene, and he obliviates Mr. Roberts, clearing his memory, and he complains that he needs 10 obliviations -- he needs his memory wiped 10 times a day to be happy. First of all, I would argue he's not happy, and second of all, that's like hourly.
Grace Ball 18:46
Yeah, and I feel like at some point that must cause some kind of damage, right?
Michael Boothby 18:51
Do people like get addicted to this? Is this like wizard drugs? Just obliviating each other, you know?
Christina Kann 18:57
Ooh! That's fun.
Michael Boothby 19:03
Wasn't it the muggle that was getting obliviated, right? Because everyone kept doing magic stuff, and he's like, "Wait a minute," and he forgets, and he's like, "Wait a minute," and it keeps coming back. It was so funny that my sister was watching Men in Black last night; that's what this reminded me of. They just keep like flashing him with the memory eraser, but it's a spell, but I was like, "This poor guy."
Christina Kann 19:25
Have either of y'all watched Doctor Who?
Grace Ball 19:28
No I haven't. I'm so sorry.
Christina Kann 19:29
Okay, well, I'm gonna tell this story anyway, for the listeners. It's brief. I think I've even mentioned this before because it's kind of stuck with me. I think the scariest creatures that they come across in Doctor Who, they're called the Silence. And they're these creatures that -- I don't remember -- they're bad for some reason. Murdery, they're gonna murder you, it's bad. I don't really remember. But when you're looking at them, cool. There they are. But as soon as you turn away, you completely forget that they exist. And so they're always trying all these things to desperately remember that they've seen one of these creatures. So they start by like, every time they see one they do a tally mark on themselves. And so they'll walk into this room and be like, "Oh, cool, okay, clear." And then they'll like, look down and there's 15 tally marks on their hand and they're like, "Oh my Jesus Christ. They're somewhere around me."
Grace Ball 20:25
That's even scarier though! You have the evidence of it.
Christina Kann 20:28
Yes. And then they're like, "Oh, shit, it's right there. I'm gonna go tell--" And then they turn and they're like, "Oh, nothing, nothing's wrong." And it like becomes such an issue that they like upgrade and they put little -- I don't know -- alien future magic -- they put little voice recorders in their hands. So every time they see one, they record while they're watching it, so it gets scarier. They'll like see that the light in their hand is beeping and they'll play back a message of themselves that they don't remember. It's just like, "They're everywhere. They're all around us!"
Grace Ball 20:59
Just like heavy breathing.
Christina Kann 21:00
"There's no way out." And they're like, "What the fuck?" Oh my gosh, so anyway, that's the kind of day Mr. Roberts is having.
Grace Ball 21:07
He is not okay.
Michael Boothby 21:09
Christina Kann 21:10
He needs a notebook to write things down.
Michael Boothby 21:14
Then it becomes like a Christopher Nolan film. After that weekend, he's like, "What does it mean? I knew this meant something." Yeah.
Christina Kann 21:24
They go into the camp site, and it really is like, festival season! You see all your friends and no one has to wear work clothes and asses out, dicks out, tits out, beers out. I haven't been to a festival since before COVID, and I miss it obviously. So most of the campers have tried to emulate muggle tents and campsites, and some of them have failed. Some haven't even tried: "an extravagant confection of striped silk like a miniature palace with several live peacocks tethered at the entrance." Literally is that the Malfoys?
Grace Ball 22:08
I mean, I think it must be.
Christina Kann 22:11
Who else would have peacocks?
Grace Ball 22:12
Michael Boothby 22:13
Christina Kann 22:16
Better than dead peacocks.
Michael Boothby 22:18
Yeah, you're right.
Christina Kann 22:22
I guess the alternative would be like a stone peacock, like the lion columns that flank the New York library.
Michael Boothby 22:28
Oh my god. Do those exist? Now I want that: a stone peacock? That's so cool.
Grace Ball 22:34
It's definitely a power move.
Christina Kann 22:35
Michael Boothby 22:36
In my in the middle of my condo, I'm gettinga stone peacock.
Christina Kann 22:40
The trick is to like have stone peacocks on the outside and then live peacocks on the inside, so they've already seen the stone ones. They're not expecting like more peacocks inside, and it escalates.
Michael Boothby 22:52
Guys, you know live peacocks are pretty scary. Have you guys ever been around live peacocks?
Christina Kann 22:57
Um, wait. Yes. And who -- Why? Why was I talking about this like yesterday?
Michael Boothby 23:03
I don't know.
Christina Kann 23:04
I was talking to somebody about peacocks because whoever was was like "All zoos do that." Because if the zoo has a peacock, the peacock just go wild. Yeah, they're terrifying.
Michael Boothby 23:13
I've seen peacocks before, but not at a zoo. I went camping once with my best friend and his dad when I was a kid living in Florida, and we just went to this campsite and you woke up and there was just a bunch of peacocks.
Christina Kann 23:26
Grace Ball 23:27
Mikey, I'm not unconvinced that you've actually been to the Quidditch World Cup. I think you were there. Are you Mr. Roberts?
Christina Kann 23:42
Oh, wait, what are you writing down in my notebook there? Your momento notebook?
Michael Boothby 23:48
Yeah right. When you guys hit me with the spell after the podcast.
Christina Kann 23:56
Okay, so they reach their camp spot. Magic is technically not allowed on the muggle campsite. I mean, you can do magic subtly, I think, and make your life a lot easier, but Arthur is very excited to put up the tents manually.
Michael Boothby 24:12
That was in my notes. I literally put that in my notes. I have three notes, and they're all very short, and that was one of them. Page 78: Mr. Weasley being overexcited using a mallet. I just love that. It's so funny.
Christina Kann 24:25
I love him.
Michael Boothby 24:26
He's so adorable. He's got such a big heart, but he's so stupid sometimes.
Christina Kann 24:34
He's a man of simple pleasures.
Michael Boothby 24:35
Yeah, for sure.
Christina Kann 24:36
He's easily entertained.
Grace Ball 24:38
He's so earnest and so endearing. I'm just like, "Hw could you ever be mad at this dude?"
Christina Kann 24:44
For sure. Well, Molly Weasley makes it happen.
Grace Ball 24:46
Weasley is an exception.
Christina Kann 24:48
Being married to someone so incredibly mild does have its drawbacks, especially, I'm sure, when you're trying to raise seven children. Add that to the list of reasons Sean and I can't have kids. He's too mild. I can't do all of the disciplining.
Michael Boothby 25:03
Christina Kann 25:04
I just think it's funny because if you're going to start -- Arthur Weasley has never done anything without magic in his life, and you don't start with assembling tents. That is like starting a video game on expert level. Why don't you just try it out first? Do something a little easier. Maybe make yourself a pot of coffee, you know what I mean?
Grace Ball 25:23
Yes, maybe try to boil some water.
Christina Kann 25:26
Yeah, I think coffee is a medium level, intermediate. There's a lot of components.
Grace Ball 25:32
Yeah, definitely not building a whole tent -- well, two tents, right?
Michael Boothby 25:36
Two tents, yeah, there's two tents.
Christina Kann 25:40
I'm a muggle. I've assembled a lot of tents in my life, and every single one is a fucking pain in the ass.
Michael Boothby 25:45
I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy it. My last memory of going to a festival -- we got there late, and it was already dark, and we had to put the tents up in the dark. Not fun. Not great.
Christina Kann 25:58
Sean and I have a pop up tent now for that reason. We take our eight-person pop-up tend to every festival. But the first time we had that tent, we didn't really know how it was. It was also my first festival ever, and we went there right after work, and we got there when it was pitch black, and I super super super don't have night vision. I know that humans generally don't have night vision, but me in particular. It had rained so much that the whole thing was just like a muddy swamp. We were trying to find a spot to pitch our tent in the darkness, and I could barely even walk in the mud, and my Uggs were slipping and sliding everywhere, and I was having an actual meltdown. I was sobbing hysterically. Sean just found the first patch of grass, and was like, "We're camping here! Okay? We're camping here." And the people next to us was like three dudes camping in a tent, and they had been there for hours; they were incredibly shit faced. And when they saw me crying, they all ran over, and they were like, "Oh my god, are you okay? Come here!" and they walked me over to their fire, and they sat me down their chair, and they handed me like a hot dog and a beer. They were like, "We got this!" None of them had shirts on. They were all like screaming. But they were like, "We got this!" and they just put our tent together for us.
Michael Boothby 27:05
Grace Ball 27:06
That is beautiful.
Michael Boothby 27:06
See, that's what I miss about festivals is just that neighborly, just people helping people. You just don't see that often in just like society, you know? When there's sidewalks and houses -- I don't know. This whole thing, you know? When you get away from that and it's just like people expressing themselves and being cool.
Christina Kann 27:32
It's literally so nice.
Michael Boothby 27:33
It's so great, yeah.
Christina Kann 27:35
It's a place where you can just trust everyone, kind of.
Michael Boothby 27:38
Now I want to go to a festival. I'm sad, there was some yoga festival that my friends went to here. I want to go to a yoga festival and teach a comedy class. Now you're like the funny guy at this yoga festival with just yoga teachers and breathwork and stuff. I love it.
Christina Kann 27:57
Michael Boothby 27:58
Hey, and that's comedy, baby!
Christina Kann 28:01
It's true. It's true. Arthur looks to Harry and Hermione for guidance with this tent, but Harry has never been camping before. Hermione probably just logics that shit, you know? She might have been camping before, actually. Her parents could be outdoors people. I never went camping as a kid, but some people's parents go camping, I'm sure.
Michael Boothby 28:25
I was a boy scout, but you know, I was the worst one. I didn't want to learn anything or like tie knots. I just wanted to like, build the swords out of the tree bark or whatever, and you know, have a fight in the woods and go exploring.
Christina Kann 28:40
What else is there to do in the woods?
Michael Boothby 28:43
I guess like just surviving, but like that wasn't my goal. Like, I don't care. I'm not gonna survive in the woods by myself. That sounds awful.
Christina Kann 28:51
Well, I was in Girl Scouts, and the tone was just like a little different. I remember one time there was a thunderstorm warning, and they woke us all up in a panic in the middle of the night to like race us home to escape the thunderstorm. My friend Anna was so upset that she barfed in the car.
Michael Boothby 29:07
Oh my god. She was so upset that she threw up?
Christina Kann 29:11
They really were panicking about the thunderstorm. They were like, "Leave everything! Abandon everything!" It was surely not that big of a deal, but they were super alarmed.
Yeah, that's extreme. Who gets that worked up about just rain?
Grace Ball 29:29
So you guys were presumably outside?
Christina Kann 29:31
Grace Ball 29:32
And so they were freaking out.
Christina Kann 29:34
We were outside and they were freaking out.
Grace Ball 29:37
Michael Boothby 29:37
See, I remember going on a long backpacking hike. It was probably my first backpacking hike as a child. And we were in Orlando, and we went really out there. We made the tents, and at night these raging thunderstorms came in. I remember being in the tent with my friend and his dad, and the wind was blowing. I was using my sleeping bag to absorb the water at the bottom of the tent, and it was so scary, but at the same time, as a kid, I thought it was so exciting. I was like, "This is so cool! His dad's actually concerned for safety and is going outside and doing dad things to keep us safe. Good thing he's here, man. I would have no idea what to do. I don't know what to do right now. I'm gonna stay in the tent."
Christina Kann 30:32
I'm pretty sure my dad has never done dad things to keep me safe. That's not really his vibe, you know?
Michael Boothby 30:38
Yeah, yeah, no, it was a rare thing for me to witness, but I'm glad it happened. It was a really cool experience.
Christina Kann 30:47
When I was 16, I took my boyfriend at the time camping at this park near our house for his birthday so that we could have sex without anyone's parents being mad.
Grace Ball 30:56
Christina Kann 30:57
But it started thunderstorming at like 10 o'clock at night. The tent was flooded, everything was flooded. It was so wet, but we were not leaving. This was like the only $25 I'd ever had to rent this campsite. We were never gonna get a chance to be alone ever again.
Grace Ball 31:17
This is it!
Christina Kann 31:19
This is the same guy for whom I went into the woods and got chiggers all down my backside because we had sex in the woods.
Grace Ball 31:25
Okay, I wasn't sure if this was the same story or a different one.
Christina Kann 31:29
Grace Ball 31:30
Two separate rendezvous.
Michael Boothby 31:33
Man, you guys are you guys are having sex at 16? That's so cool, man. All I wanted to do when I was 16 was have sex, and I didn't lose my virginity till I was 19, till I had graduated high school.
Christina Kann 31:48
That's just not that bad.
Michael Boothby 31:50
Even now, 30 year old me, I wish 16 year old me could have the sex that I have now -- because I don't care anymore! I'm 30! I don't care anymore.
Christina Kann 32:02
I see, you wanted to have more chance to appreciate it before you got jaded. I do understand that.
Michael Boothby 32:07
It was so exciting then, too. It was the only thing I wanted and it was not happening. It was not gonna happen. I had no chance.
Christina Kann 32:15
I read all these YA novels where people are so excited to just like touch each other. Wow, I remember that but I don't think there's any going back.
Michael Boothby 32:27
Yeah, oh my god.
Christina Kann 32:30
Oh dear. How did we get here? You know how we got here it they "finish erecting the tent" are my exact notes.
Grace Ball 32:39
How dare you say "erect" at this time?
Michael Boothby 32:42
Nice. Very nice transition.
Christina Kann 32:46
And they finish the tents and they go inside, and it's bigger on the inside. That's another Doctor Who joke for you.
Michael Boothby 32:54
I'd love that, though. It's one of my favorite things of the Harry Potter universe -- and also Hermione's infinite bag of stuff. I just love that there's this thing that looks small on the outside, and you walk in and it's like, "It's a three bedroom." I'm pretty sure Mr. Weasley says, "Well, it's not the biggest one, you know, but we'll make do." And Harry's just like, "What the fuck? This is insane."
Christina Kann 33:23
That's the thing: with Harry, it doesn't matter if it's big or small. It's just the novelty of this kind of magic is is all he needs to be stoked about this. Honestly, they could probably sleep in the open grass and he'd be stoked just to be here. He hasn't done a lot of fun stuff in his life. So they need water for the kettle. It is probably, what, like, 7 am right now? It's really early.
Michael Boothby 33:47
It's pretty early because yeah, people are like waking up. When they first get there, I feel like no one's even up yet.
Christina Kann 33:54
Usually when I go camping, it's a wake up with the sun thing. It's usually like 6:30 or 7 just organically.
Grace Ball 34:01
Yeah, like an eel farmer or something.
Christina Kann 34:06
So Ron and Harry and Hermione set out to find like the spigot that is marked on their campsite map, so they get to stroll through. At the festivals I go to, I call this a preliminary walkabout, just to see where stuff is. See if you see any familiar faces. Don't even worry about setting up camp. Yeah, like just go. We'll do this later. We have all day. Yeah, people are starting to wake up. Harry's never seen wizard children before. And the book doesn't say this, but I feel like he's probably a little like sadly nostalgic. What's the opposite of nostalgic? Like, "I wish I had had that," you know?
Michael Boothby 34:44
Jealous? I mean, it's not jealous but it kind of is.
Grace Ball 34:48
A little envious, maybe.
Michael Boothby 34:49
Envious! I think that's the word. He easily could have had that with his parents. Yeah, they would have brought him to the Quidditch Festival and let him get a little too crazy on a mini broom while the other wizards are like, "Tame your kids!" I love that. They're like, "These are bad parents!" like they're all like judging each other or whatever.
Christina Kann 35:13
Oh my god, this just like flashed me back to when I was a kid and all the adult couples in my family were not divorced yet. They're all divorced now. But you know, I would go to the Outer Banks with my whole family, and somehow we would fit eight children and six aunts and uncles and Grandma, we'd all fit in the same house. And every night -- I know this now, and at the time I just didn't even clock it -- but every night, all the grownups would get shit-faced drunk, and we would just like run wild on the beach. And I just picture that for James and Lily and the Marauders, just like getting drunk as shit. And they're like, "Fuck, we have a baby. We're 22." Yeah, going buckwild on a toy broom. It's a lovely little image.
Grace Ball 36:02
I love that.
Michael Boothby 36:02
Oh, poor Harry.
Christina Kann 36:04
But it never was!
Michael Boothby 36:05
It was never meant to be.
Christina Kann 36:07
There's a baby who's prodding the slug with a wand.
Grace Ball 36:14
Christina Kann 36:14
Is his name Kevin?
Grace Ball 36:16
Yeah, his name's Kevin.
Christina Kann 36:17
Oh my god, that makes me so happy, for some reason, that his name is Kevin.
Michael Boothby 36:21
The little baby -- he has a name?
Grace Ball 36:24
Yeah, his name is Kevin.
Christina Kann 36:25
I don't know why I didn't retain that either.
Grace Ball 36:28
I just thought it was so random and funny.
Michael Boothby 36:30
I have to look this up. I have to see it with my own eyes. Little Kevin?
Grace Ball 36:37
Yep. This is just a reminder to me -- and I know we've talked about it before with the Weasleys having seven kids -- but just like how much of a nightmare it would be to be a parent of wizards. They're just crazy. They're just like stealing your wand and like doing a bunch of shenanigans.
Christina Kann 36:57
It's true. And honestly, not to always make everything about my kittens, but it's similar, I think. With the kittens it's like, "How did you jump so far? Like how are you this? How do you have this much energy? This is bananas. This is unfathomable to me." And I feel like it'd be the same thing with a kid. "Whoa, you're defying gravity, the laws of physics. Get it together. This is really wild right now."
Michael Boothby 37:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christina Kann 37:25
Slugs. "You bust slug!"
Michael Boothby 37:28
I just read read a part that like I think I didn't register when I was reading it earlier. All the wizards are waking up, but I love that "while a group of middle aged American witches set gossiping happily beneath a spangled banner stretched between their tents that read 'the Salem Witches Institute.'" I love that. I love that so much. And they're like, "Harry caught snatches of conversation in strange languages from the inside of tents they passed." It's so funny. It's such a festival! There's just so many people and he's so excited. That's one thing I came back to, the moment Harry has this moment where he's like, "I never thought that there were wizards outside of Hogwarts," and it really dawns on him. I love the international aspect of the Goblet of Fire, right? Who doesn't want the wizard Olympics, right?
Christina Kann 38:22
Totally. There's probably a lot to look at, even more so than that like muggle music festival.
Michael Boothby 38:30
Right! And there's already so much there.
Christina Kann 38:35
They get to the Ireland camping section, which is all decked out in green. They next find the Bulgaria section, where Victor Krum's poster is everywhere. They run into Seamus and Dean, obviously in the Ireland section. His name's Seamus. He's in the Ireland section.
Michael Boothby 38:53
Christina Kann 38:54
I always like read the chapter and listen to it also. I just listen to random videos on YouTube of people reading it. And I discovered one today, a reader who was just like a regular person -- they didn't appear to be an actor on a stage -- but they did different voices for every single character in this chapter, including different accents, and they were very well done accents. So I'm gonna link that in the show notes because it was honestly an incredible performance. It was this person and supposedly their partner, and the partner was just sitting there for 50 minutes of reading, just listening pleasantly, while their partner really committed to this elaborate -- they were doing so many voices! Anyway, it's linked in the show notes. It's really incredible.
Grace Ball 39:46
Yeah, that's like a one man show. That's awesome.
Christina Kann 39:48
Yeah, it was serious. They finally get to the water tap. They're waiting in line. Cue Archie and his nightgown. I love that man.
Grace Ball 39:58
Christina Kann 39:59
Honestly, more power to him because he's refusing to put on -- the point of wearing muggle clothes is to not be suspicious. But the nightgown is a little conspicuous for any person to be wearing like during the day in public.
Grace Ball 40:21
It sounds cute though.
Christina Kann 40:24
It does sound cute and probably really comfy.
Grace Ball 40:26
Christina Kann 40:27
And airy, I guess.
Grace Ball 40:30
Mhm, in all the right places.
Christina Kann 40:34
That's why I want to buy Sean a kilt, I think, which is just a skirt. I think it would probably be so liberating for people who just wear pants every day to just throw on a skirt and see what happens. See what happens.
Grace Ball 40:48
Christina Kann 40:50
See, this is the kind of stuff that we lose in the movies. Hermione dissolves into a fit of giggles -- specifically Hermione.
Michael Boothby 40:55
I love that.
Christina Kann 40:56
Ron and Harry are okay, but Hermione loses her shit. I don't know why.
Grace Ball 41:01
She's probably like, "I have that nightgown."
Michael Boothby 41:08
It's some inside joke she has with herself that no one else would get.
Christina Kann 41:15
Only children things: inside joke with myself.
Michael Boothby 41:18
Christina Kann 41:21
They get the water, they walk back to camp. After all this, Harry finally -- I think it's been like an hour and a half -- Harry finally is like, "You know, wow. There's other schools out there."
Grace Ball 41:35
Way to go, Harry.
Michael Boothby 41:36
He has that kind of introspective moment.
Christina Kann 41:41
He's not a Ravenclaw.
Grace Ball 41:42
How has he not had that yet? But whatever.
Michael Boothby 41:45
I get it though. If it's your first time going to a festival, there's so much happening externally that it's not until you walk back to your tent for the first time and are sitting there and lying back. You're like, "Huh, how do I feel?" You know? I don't know.
Christina Kann 42:03
Michael Boothby 42:04
Right, yeah. You can't really reflect when you're meeting all these crazy people and doing tasks. You're so focused on just what's happening.
Christina Kann 42:13
It's true. The one festival that Sean and I have been to the most, we camp half a mile away from the event site? And it's like straight up a mountain the entire half mile. It is a good little reflection time because you're just going straight up. I feel so powerful after like three days of just walking up a mountain.
Michael Boothby 42:38
My gosh, if I went to that festival and camped where you guys camped, after day one, I'd be like, "I guess I'm going, bye! It's enough exercise for me."
Christina Kann 42:49
They do have like a bus, which is fun, but I prefer to walk.
Michael Boothby 42:53
Christina Kann 42:53
Hey, good to see everybody.
Grace Ball 42:55
Christina Kann 42:55
Everybody's all lit. But it's like in the dark. So it's like A Midsummer Night's Dream. Just like all these fairies in the dark.
Grace Ball 43:02
You can't do your walkabout from a bus.
Christina Kann 43:05
Exactly. So back at the campsite, they got off the bus. Arthur has been really enthusiastically failing to light his fire with matches.
Grace Ball 43:27
And then the one he lights, he's surprised that he lit it, and it goes out or whatever.
Christina Kann 43:32
Don't tell me you've never done that.
Grace Ball 43:34
I have certainly done that. Definitely.
Christina Kann 43:38
Sometimes it's scary.
Grace Ball 43:39
That's why I love that part! I'm like, "Wow, that's relatable."
Christina Kann 43:42
That's the most muggle shit! Finally Hermione's like, "Let me show you how to do a match." And then while the fire gets hot, they just kind of sit and watch people go past. I also relate to this, honestly; this is a festival vibe -- or even kind of going anywhere vibe, the people-watching. Arthur's keeping a running commentary of the ministry and other important people who pass them by. They start cooking breakfast. Charlie, Bill, and Percy arrive. I want to know -- what were they talking about this whole time before they got here? They had to walk from somewhere -- what what did the three of them talk about?
Michael Boothby 44:24
Yeah. That's a very good question.
Grace Ball 44:26
I seriously don't know.
Michael Boothby 44:27
That's so interesting. If this was a Game of Thrones book, we would just cut back to this long conversation about nothing.
Grace Ball 44:35
I feel like Bill and Charlie probably talked a lot, and then Percy had weird, awkward interjections.
Christina Kann 44:45
I mean, Bill and Charlie are really nice. They're both really nice. And so I feel like they're probably trying to ask him questions.
Michael Boothby 44:51
Grace Ball 44:52
That's true. They were probably trying to engage him.
Michael Boothby 44:58
What's, um -- what's Percy's deal? Is he just like really anxious or he have like a social like disorder or something? I don't know.
Christina Kann 45:08
I think that he really is just like kind of a classic Ravenclaw, like an Amy Santiago from Brooklyn 99. We did that bonus episode recently. A Hermione whose fatal flaw is that they're too Hermione. You know what I mean? You're so like perfectionistic and studious that it's the worst thing about you.
Michael Boothby 45:32
He's insufferable, which is why I love when he gets roasted by Barty Crouch.
Christina Kann 45:42
He really has no business being a Gryffindor. That is a fucking Ravenclaw.
Michael Boothby 45:47
Michael Boothby 45:48
Yeah, you're right. He's just an overthinker. I don't know. He's not even that brave, really. I mean, he's just kind of doing his job.
Christina Kann 46:01
He does brave thing ever, and it's saying sorry for a mistake and coming back, you know?
Grace Ball 46:07
Michael Boothby 46:08
Christina Kann 46:10
I mean it's brave, but you had to fuck up a lot to get there.
Michael Boothby 46:13
Christina Kann 46:16
So Ludo Bagman shows up. He's wearing his old Quidditch robes, which look like a bee. He is boyishly handsome. I've always had a hard time envisioning this character in my head, maybe because they took him out of the movies. I don't have that to fall back on.
Michael Boothby 46:41
That's a shame. Maybe that's what happened. Maybe the casting director looked at that and was like, "Fuck this. Who? What does this mean? What does this person look like?"
Christina Kann 46:51
I mean, I understand his existence actually doesn't matter to the plotline. He serves as a red herring, pretty much, and there's just not really time for that in the films. But I wonder who y'all would cast in the movie to play Ludo Bagman?
Michael Boothby 47:09
I don't even know.
Grace Ball 47:12
Michael Boothby 47:13
He's like older but boyish? Like I don't know what that means.
Christina Kann 47:16
What about the dad from Modern Family? What's that guy's name?
Grace Ball 47:20
His name in Modern Family is Phil.
Christina Kann 47:22
Michael Boothby 47:24
Yeah, I could see that. Yeah.
Christina Kann 47:26
A little full of himself but like not even remotely threatening.
Michael Boothby 47:31
I could see that, no, I could see that.
Grace Ball 47:33
I definitely can't think of a better one.
Christina Kann 47:37
Who's really un-disarming? He's just like so genial.
Grace Ball 47:45
Just like not a care in the world.
Christina Kann 47:47
Yeah, doesn't have to be a British person.
Michael Boothby 47:50
Actually, he would have been way too old at the time, but honestly Gene Wilder as like a cameo.
Christina Kann 47:57
Oh, that's fun!
Michael Boothby 47:58
He'd just be really eccentric. I don't know.
Christina Kann 48:02
Um, Reddit says -- and I think this is a great point -- Reddit says that if Kenneth Branagh had not already portrayed Lockhart, he probably would have made a good Ludo Bagman. I think that what they're saying is that he's really good at putting on airs and blowing hot air. Airs and air.
Grace Ball 48:20
Yeah, I like that.
Christina Kann 48:22
Grace Ball 48:24
Wow. I mean, I didn't mean to say "wow" like that.
Christina Kann 48:31
We also got Paul Rudd.
Michael Boothby 48:37
Yeah, I mean, he is 50 and does look very young, in fairness.
Christina Kann 48:43
Yeah. Also, Jeff Bridges is the last recommendation on this Reddit thread.
Michael Boothby 48:47
I could see that.
Grace Ball 48:48
Michael Boothby 48:49
I can see that.
Grace Ball 48:50
Yeah, I think those are good options. I like Owen Wilson for the part myself.
Christina Kann 48:54
I do too. Tell us who you would cast as Ludo Bagman. Shoot us an email at firstname.lastname@example.org or hit us up on our socials, because we would love to know. I'm sure we will talk about this in our Discord server. As a reminder, you can join our Discord server for supporting us on Patreon for $1 a month. Ludo Bagman is "plainly in a state of wild excitement." Wow, hard same. I can like feel that.
Grace Ball 49:32
It really resonates with you, doesn't it?
Christina Kann 49:36
Grace, tell me if I'm wrong, if you don't feel this way, but as I was reading this, and all of the ministry employees who are complaining to each other, they're all running at 100 miles per hour, and they're all really stressed. This reminds me the RVA Booklovers' Festival that we throw together.
Michael Boothby 50:06
You guys throw a book festival?
Christina Kann 50:09
We do, Michael. That was before your time. We do host an annual book festival through our RVA Booklovers.
Michael Boothby 50:17
I want to come. Who comes to that?
Grace Ball 50:20
Just like all the booklovers.
Michael Boothby 50:23
I'm gonna come show my book at it. Can I sponsor it? Can I get a booth?
Christina Kann 50:33
You can get a Boothby booth.
Grace Ball 50:38
Yeah, but it is similar vibes to that, Christina. Just like complete chaos but we're all so excited.
Christina Kann 50:46
Yeah, they're like servers who are super weeded at the dinner hour, but there's that one person who is always crushing, it always gets great tips, never drops anything, never forgets anything, and they're having a great time, and everyone else is like "Hey, fuck you. They just sat me three six stops in a row."
Michael Boothby 51:07
Grace Ball 51:07
Christina Kann 51:08
Yeah, I write these notes ahead of time and then I make myself laugh later. I wrote, "I go limitless when I'm hosting too." Have you guys seen limitless?
Grace Ball 51:22
No. Wow. Failing you left and right.
Christina Kann 51:25
It's Bradley Cooper--
Michael Boothby 51:27
No, I have seen that.
Christina Kann 51:28
Yeah, it's basically about cocaine. It's a made-up drug but--
Michael Boothby 51:32
I thought it was about Adderall.
Christina Kann 51:34
No, it's a made-up drug, but it is just straight up cocaine because you take it and you're like, "Oh, I'm perfect now. I can do everything. I got everything." You see things in slow motion and in four dimensions. So I get it. That's how I go when I'm hosting too. I'm like, "My anxiety is so high that my brain is so crisp and clear right now." Ludo Bagman asks Arthur to bet on the game, and he bets a galleon.
Michael Boothby 52:02
How much is a galleon? Is that like, what is that?
Michael Boothby 52:05
10 or 20 bucks?
Grace Ball 52:08
In season one, Andrew had a whole conversion chart or something?
Christina Kann 52:14
Oh my god. I think it is at least $10.
Michael Boothby 52:27
Okay. 10, 20 bucks. Yeah.
Christina Kann 52:28
Yeah. Okay, the twins offer to bet 37 galleons and some change. And a fake wand.
Michael Boothby 52:37
The fake wand!
Christina Kann 52:38
The prank wand.
Michael Boothby 52:39
I love the prank wand so much.
Grace Ball 52:42
That's everything that they have.
Christina Kann 52:44
Yeah, it is.
Michael Boothby 52:46
They did a true YOLO on this rare outcome of this game. I love this whole part that turns into sports betting. It literally just turns into an ad for like DraftKings.
Christina Kann 53:00
They're trying ostensibly to get startup money for their business.
Michael Boothby 53:06
Yeah, I respect the hell out of it, man.
Christina Kann 53:09
I do too. It's risky, but they probably don't have any other options, especially with their mother acting the way she's been acting, which I don't approve of.
Grace Ball 53:17
Yeah, they're like, "We're all in." But not a great dude to go all in with.
Christina Kann 53:22
Right. Yeah, I think they just trust him because he's a ministry official. And Arthur Weasley has brought a lot of trustworthy ministry officials into their life before, you know? But Ludo's just not that way.
Grace Ball 53:35
And technically, Ludo did come through with the tickets to the World Cup.
Michael Boothby 53:41
Right, and they're box tickets too. These aren't in the crowd. This is up in the box, right? He's announcing the whole event, right? He's VIP.
Christina Kann 53:54
Andrew hypothesized last episode that Cornelius Fudge made sure -- or even Bagman, just the ministry -- ensured that Arthur Weasley invited Harry to this game as a brag because the other country's ministry officials are also sitting in the box. So it's like a brag you know? We got Harry Potter.
Grace Ball 54:14
Michael Boothby 54:15
Right. It's good PR for the ministry.
Christina Kann 54:18
Yeah, yeah. So the twins bet that Ireland will win the game but Krum will get the Snitch. Just like pretend you don't know what happens next. Why would anyone make this bet?
Michael Boothby 54:30
Because the odds -- that's why, as soon as they made that, Bagman was like, "Oh, those are crazy odds." So they would probably, if they won, would get like 1000 to one odds or something. So just like crazy money.
Christina Kann 54:44
Grace Ball 54:45
There's a lot of betting going on, and I feel like this is a pretty unique bet. You know?
Michael Boothby 54:52
It is. Yeah, there's not many people taking that bet. This is the scene that I want to see, is the scene of Fred and George twinning out one night doing their investment research. They're like, "Well, here's the stats on the players, and Krum this and that, here's the score." I feel like they did their homework, you know? They stayed up pretty late, probably. They're comedians, they're jokers. They're pretty smart guys.
Christina Kann 55:14
One of them's the math guy and one of them's the ideas guy.
Michael Boothby 55:17
Right, so yeah, the idea guy was like, "What if this?" and the math guy's like, "Let me crunch the numbers," and they're like, "Let's do it."
Christina Kann 55:23
Fred is the ideas guy and George is the numbers guy. I believe that because typically, if you look closely, Fred is usually a slightly more of a loose cannon and George is usually slightly more level-headed and like... modest... is a weird word to say for the twins. But you know what I mean?
Michael Boothby 55:43
I resonate with the twins, being a twin myself, you know?
Christina Kann 55:46
Oh yeah! Oh, my God! Grace is a twin too!
Michael Boothby 55:50
Yeah, I think we've had a conversation--
Grace Ball 55:52
I think we have talked about this before. That's pretty cool.
Michael Boothby 55:54
I hope we keep forgetting and every time, we go, "Really?"
Grace Ball 55:57
Yes. It's fun every time.
Michael Boothby 55:59
Christina Kann 56:00
Grace, you have like a dude twin and you have a gal twin?
Michael Boothby 56:05
Yeah, yeah. Opposite sides of fraternal twinship.
Christina Kann 56:10
Yeah, it's easy for people to forget that you guys have twins because there's not another person in the world who looks exactly like you.
Grace Ball 56:16
Christina Kann 56:18
Although you look a lot like your sister, Tabitha.
Grace Ball 56:21
Yeah. Whenever people hear that there are twins in the family, they assume that I'm twins with my older sister, but joke's on you.
Christina Kann 56:29
Michael Boothby 56:32
My friends get really upset when they find out my twin sister also doesn't have a mustache. They're like, "We thought you guys were twins. What's this? What's this going on?" I've had to have that conversation so many times over the years, like we're fraternal. People don't know what that means.
Grace Ball 56:52
I still remember one of my sixth grade teachers asked if we were identical, and she knew that we were male and female or whatever. So I was like, "Huh, you're an educator. Feels like you should not be asking me that question right now."
Michael Boothby 57:08
You should know this. You should know this question.
Grace Ball 57:10
Michael Boothby 57:11
Christina Kann 57:12
And you can't say to your teacher, "Yikes, you're an educator. You should know this."
Grace Ball 57:15
Yeah. And you know, and I did anyway. No, I'm kidding.
Michael Boothby 57:18
I wish! That'd be so badass.
Christina Kann 57:20
A Ravenclaw would never. I corrected a teacher once. I was in college, and he was straight-up wrong in my area of expertise. And I really trusted him. I had a big ole brain crush on this professor, you know? When it's like, "You're not that cute, but you're so smart and your interests delight me." And he took it so nicely. He was like, "Thank you so much for correcting me. Oh my god. I would love to read more."
Grace Ball 57:43
Oh my God. That's the perfect reaction.
Christina Kann 57:46
Michael Boothby 57:46
I love the supportive teacher.
Christina Kann 57:50
Um, so the opposite of support is: Arthur Weasley asks Ludo Bagman if he's heard about Bertha Jorkins, who is missing. Ludo Bagman says he has heard "not a dicky bird."
Michael Boothby 58:05
Weird phrase, honestly, pretty weird phrase.
Christina Kann 58:08
It's British dad talk. Grandpa said this, and it's weird now
Michael Boothby 58:13
As an American, hate it.
Grace Ball 58:16
Yeah, not a fan.
Christina Kann 58:20
Ludo Bagman firmly believes that Bertha Jorkins is stupid and got lost of her own stupidity and will find her way home safe and confused eventually, and that it's not really his problem.
Michael Boothby 58:33
Who is this again? Who is this lady?
Christina Kann 58:35
Bertha Jorkins is a character who never has any screen time, so to speak, in the books.
Michael Boothby 58:41
That's a great name.
Christina Kann 58:43
Bertha Jorkins. Yeah, she's my bitch. She gets kidnapped. She goes on vacation and gets kidnapped by Voldemort. And she is the source of information that leads him to develop his entire plan to come back to power. Yeah. They should have looked for her sooner because then maybe they would have been able to get ahead of this in some way. But they don't.
Michael Boothby 59:05
I love how the Ministry of Magic, like any government agency, at the end of the day is just so incompetent.
Grace Ball 59:13
Michael Boothby 59:14
It's like so much bureaucracy that nothing gets done.
Christina Kann 59:19
Yes. And I think you can see that really exemplified in this chapter, particularly with the difference between Barty Crouch and Ludo Bagman. Obviously these two men are gonna have a hard time working together. Barty Crouch Sr. shows up. He's stiff, upright, uptight dressing--
Michael Boothby 59:39
He speaks 250 languages!
Christina Kann 59:42
That is-- I just-- Two is really hard. Two languages is really hard.
Michael Boothby 59:47
This guy's like brilliant.
Christina Kann 59:50
Our American is showing. But also, I don't think that most people speak 250 languages. I think maybe like three is a good number to aspire to.
Michael Boothby 59:58
I know someone who speaks seven.
Christina Kann 1:00:01
That's pretty strong.
Michael Boothby 1:00:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christina Kann 1:00:05
Percy offers Barty Crouch a cup of tea. Crouch calls him Weatherby, which is an ongoing joke, and also, I think, a crucial plot point later.
Michael Boothby 1:00:15
I love it. "Thanks, Weatherby," and then yeah Fred and George are just like "Time to troll."
Grace Ball 1:00:23
It's heartbreaking and satisfying at the same time.
Christina Kann 1:00:26
Right. Yes, exactly. There is some discourse about flying carpets.
Michael Boothby 1:00:34
That was in my notes. That was my last note I put.
Christina Kann 1:00:38
Your last of three notes?
Michael Boothby 1:00:40
My last of my three notes was ban on flying carpets.
Christina Kann 1:00:44
Michael Boothby 1:00:45
Because even Harry was like, "Wait a minute. What?" Yeah.
Grace Ball 1:00:55
Arthur says something about how they're muggle artifacts, carpets are muggle artifacts. But like, what the fuck is a broom, my man?
Christina Kann 1:01:12
Maybe with the magical community invented brooms back in the day.
Grace Ball 1:01:18
Okay, I see. So it started with them.
Christina Kann 1:01:21
That would be ridiculous, if it was invented for magical purposes before house cleaning purposes.
Grace Ball 1:01:26
And then muggles were like, "Wait a second!"
Christina Kann 1:01:29
Why did I ever think of tying some kind of sex on a bear stack?
Michael Boothby 1:01:35
Did they talk about why they banned the carpets? I forget why they were justifying it.
Grace Ball 1:01:45
I think it's racism.
Michael Boothby 1:01:45
Is it? Or did it become too cliche? People were like, "No, guys, no more carpets. It's too obvious."
Grace Ball 1:01:54
Carpets have saturated the market.
Christina Kann 1:01:57
I think there's a couple of reasons that you would ban magic carpets. First of all: safety. Is there seatbelts on these are your babies just rolling off the sides?
Grace Ball 1:02:08
I guess, but I'm trying to figure out: how is it different than a broom? Like how is it any less safe?
Michael Boothby 1:02:13
I have to find the dialogue.
Christina Kann 1:02:15
Good point, but I guess maybe like one person rides a broom kind of like a motorcycle?
Grace Ball 1:02:20
Right. Where you could put like a family on a carpet.
Christina Kann 1:02:23
Yeah, and the baby just rolls off. It could be a misuse of muggle artifacts argument.
Michael Boothby 1:02:32
I do love the dialog here. I do love this. "'I've been wanting a word with you too, Arthur,' said Mr. Crouch, his sharp eyes falling upon Mr. Weasley. 'Ali Bashir is on the warpath. He wants a word with you about your embargo on flying carpets.' Mr. Weasley heaved a deep sigh," like "This fucking thing again." I love this so much: "I sent him an owl about that last week." He's like "I sent the email!" "'If I told him once, I was told him 100 times: carpets are defined as a muggle artifact by the Registry of Prescribed Charmable Objects. But will he listen?' 'I doubt it,' said Mr. Crouch, accepting a cup from Percy. 'He's desperate to export here.'" He's like, "This guy's trying to make some money selling these carpets to the good wizards of Great Britain."
Christina Kann 1:03:32
It's funny that Ludo Bagman and Barty Crouch are such foils. They're in such juxtaposition to each other. But obviously Arthur Weasley is the happy medium between the two. He gets his job done, he takes it seriously, he's worried about it. But he also is very genial and mild and doesn't want to bother anybody. Ludo Bagman refers to some big secret thing at Hogwarts. We've heard this before. What's the big secret thing? I don't know.
Michael Boothby 1:04:02
Is it the Goblet of Fire?
Christina Kann 1:04:12
Barty Crouch insists that they need to go speak with the Bulgarians, and he makes Bagman leave with him. The afternoon wears on, people are getting excited for the headliner -- I mean the --
Michael Boothby 1:04:26
The main event!
Christina Kann 1:04:27
The main event. Salespeople are popping up all around to sell merch. I just love it so much.
Michael Boothby 1:04:35
The merch tents pop up, yeah.
Christina Kann 1:04:36
Yes! Harry buys some cool fancy omnioculars.
Michael Boothby 1:04:42
It's like glasses that just give you a smartphone app overview of the game. It lets you know who the players are. It's like watching the broadcast TV version of the game.
Christina Kann 1:04:55
Grace Ball 1:04:56
Yeah, they are very cool.
Michael Boothby 1:05:00
And they were expensive, right? Weren't they like 10 galleons or something? And Harry's like, "Guys, I'm balling." He's like, "My parents are dead, guys. It's on me. You're my friends. I did nothing for this money." Ron's like, "Oh I couldn't," but then Harry's like, "Don't worry, I'm just not buying you a Christmas gift for the next eight years," and Ron's like, "Lol, okay bro." They're so cool about it.
Christina Kann 1:05:26
It's wild that Harry's in a position to drop, just on a whim, the same amount of money that Fred and George just bet, which must be their life savings combined.
Michael Boothby 1:05:38
Money is not an issue for Harry. Harry's got a trust fund.
Christina Kann 1:05:42
This chapter uses the phrase "small fortune." Ron has always been mad that Harry inherited a small fortune and he was stupid rich. But, you know, that's Ron. That's Ron's problem.
Michael Boothby 1:05:51
Right. Yeah, it's Ron being insecure, right? Which is fair, but Harry's not showy with his money at all. He really uses it to help himself and help his friends. You know?
Christina Kann 1:06:02
Yeah, it's true.
Michael Boothby 1:06:04
Like he's a good friend here, right? You're going to the festival and there's like some cool shirt, and your friend's like, "I'm gonna buy you that $50 shirt. Why? Cuz I know you love that band."
Grace Ball 1:06:13
Yeah, it's not like he's doing it to brag. He's doing it because he wants them to have this.
Michael Boothby 1:06:18
He just wants to enjoy the game with his friends and all the have the app experience.
Christina Kann 1:06:24
It's like when you're like, "Let's go out for drinks," and your friend is like, "Oh, I'm trying not to spend money right now." It's like, "Dude, I will buy you a drink. I want to just go get a drink with you. That's so much more valuable than your $6 beer or whatever."
Michael Boothby 1:06:36
Christina Kann 1:06:38
Get you best friends who drink $2 beers. Shoutout to Emily. We went out for Emily's birthday dinner, and I was like, "Don't worry, babe. We'll treat," and Sean was like, "We're gonna treat??" and I was like, "Her meal is like $10. That's five beers and one appetizer."
Michael Boothby 1:06:54
I can see Sean saying that.
Christina Kann 1:06:58
So then a gong sounds off in the woods, and it's time to go!
Grace Ball 1:07:03
Christina Kann 1:07:05
Michael Boothby 1:07:06
I wanted to play like a sample of a gong sound right there.
Christina Kann 1:07:12
So that's that! We're going to the World Cup. The next chapter is going to be exciting in a different way. This chapter had some really good world building in it that I really enjoyed, and even though plot-wise, it's dull, nothing's happening, it is still really a nice tone to set before we go into the World Cup. It's kind of getting our guard down so that when shit hits the fan that night with all the Death Eaters, it catches the reader off guard too.
Michael Boothby 1:07:44
It's a really good misdirection. This chapter is like comedic, it's like family sitcom vibes. You know?
Christina Kann 1:07:51
And like bureaucratic also.
Michael Boothby 1:07:53
Right! It's like also like the Office. There's these bureaucrats finally letting loose at the festival.
Grace Ball 1:08:03
Also, you see so much more of the wizarding community at large.
Michael Boothby 1:08:09
This is the fourth book. Isn't this the first one where they did like things outside of Hogwarts, before Hogwarts?
Christina Kann 1:08:15
Michael Boothby 1:08:16
So it's also that too. As a reader, it's the first time you're like, "Oh whoa, we're out in the world. What does that look like?"
Christina Kann 1:08:23
In Book Three, Harry spends two weeks living in Diagon Alley, so it's like baby steps into the world-building.
Michael Boothby 1:08:29
Before the book?
Christina Kann 1:08:31
Michael Boothby 1:08:31
Really? I don't remember that.
Christina Kann 1:08:35
He blows up his aunt and takes the Knight Bus.
Michael Boothby 1:08:40
Oh yeah! Right, he does have that.
Christina Kann 1:08:42
So we get two weeks of him eating ice cream and studying and shopping, which sounds great.
Michael Boothby 1:08:49
Being rich and renting AirBnBs and going out for nice meals and studying. He's living the dream.
Grace Ball 1:08:56
Treat yo self.
Clothes? Treat yourself. Fragrances? Treat yourself. Massages? Treat yourself. Mimosas? Treat yourself.
Christina Kann 1:09:04
Well, any last words about this chapter? Anything we didn't bring up? Mike, did we read all three of your notes?
Michael Boothby 1:09:09
No, no, there's one more and we definitely have to go back to it because this is my middle note. I just wrote "page 86: the accidental magic reversal squad." I love that. I was watching Men in Black last night, and it's like the scene where they go to the morgue, and there's the alien bodies and the little alien speaks to the lady. and they flash her, and then there's a whole team coming in to wipe the whole place down. This is the wizarding version of that. I would be on that. If I was a wizard, I'd love that job. You're like, "Where are we going today? What happened? No shit. They did what? All right fuck yeah. Okay." You know, that'd be a pretty fun job. I love the names of all the departments that like go into this chapter. They're almost like these little punch lines, right? And they're all really clever.
Christina Kann 1:10:05
The word "accidental" is funny because in our legal system and our government, doing things by accident doesn't really absolve you of anything.
Michael Boothby 1:10:16
That's how you get sued, right? I like that there's no lawyers in the wizarding world. Apparently.
Christina Kann 1:10:23
We always say that there's only three careers in Hogwarts. It's teacher, government or entrepreneur. And I'm gonna be the wizarding world's first lawyer. That's my job. That's my path.
Michael Boothby 1:10:37
No, don't do it. No!
Christina Kann 1:10:40
I'd be a great lawyer.
Grace Ball 1:10:41
I think if anyone could do it, it would be you.
Christina Kann 1:10:43
I'd be a great magical lawyer.
Michael Boothby 1:10:45
Imagine the magic small claims court. That'd be another funny Robot Chicken sketch, right?
Christina Kann 1:10:54
Or even a show like the Office.
Michael Boothby 1:10:57
Right! Hey, hey, Warner Brothers. You want you want a hot comedy based in the Harry Potter universe that no one's expecting? Hire me, Michael Boothby.
Christina Kann 1:11:09
That would be amazing.
Michael Boothby 1:11:11
I would write the shit out of that.
Christina Kann 1:11:15
Grace, any last words about the chapter?
Grace Ball 1:11:17
Wow. Um, no, I think we did a great job. Good job, everybody.
Christina Kann 1:11:21
Yeah, I think so too. This was a very fun episode, and it's time to move on to our plugs. I would love to start by plugging our Patreon! This month's bonus episode will sort Brooklyn 99 characters into Hogwarts houses. That's a lot of fun. That's our $5 a month tier. But honestly, for as little as $1 a month, you can join us on our Discord server, where me, Grace, and Michael hang out with the rest of our really awesome community. So it's a great place to be. Come join us! Linked in the show notes. Um, Grace?
Grace Ball 1:11:58
Christina Kann 1:11:58
Do you want people to find you on the internet?
Grace Ball 1:12:00
No. It's mostly because I'm boring. I don't do anything.
Christina Kann 1:12:06
Find her on the Discord.
Grace Ball 1:12:07
Yeah, I'm on the Discord! Head over there, folks.
Christina Kann 1:12:11
What do you have that you've been reading, watching, playing, listening to, etc. lately that you have to recommend?
Grace Ball 1:12:18
I have kind of been watching a show sporadically, and I just finished it last night. It's called Maniac. I don't know if you guys have seen it. It's been out for a couple years.
Christina Kann 1:12:28
Yeah! With Jonah, uh--
Grace Ball 1:12:31
Jonah Hill and Emma Stone.
Christina Kann 1:12:33
Yes, I did watch that.
Grace Ball 1:12:36
You did watch it?
Christina Kann 1:12:37
Grace Ball 1:12:38
Oh, cool. Okay, nice. But basically, for anyone who hasn't seen it, the story jumps between Emma's and Jonah's characters while they're participating in a pharmaceutical trial, and basically, the intention of the trial is to find a way to replace talk therapy. During a lot of it, the two characters are put into a dream state to get to, you know, their deeper issues or whatever. So they keep popping up in each other's dreams, which is really interesting. But because a lot of the show is made up of their dreams, there's a lot of genre hopping happening, which is cool! Yeah, it's definitely got some weird parts, some stuff that's really far out there, but overall, I finished it, I thought it was really well done, and I recommend giving it a watch.
Christina Kann 1:13:30
Yeah, I support this plug. Michael, where can people find you on the internet?
Michael Boothby 1:13:36
Sweet! Yeah, guys, I'm on Facebook, unfortunately, still. You could find me there. You can find me on Instagram @itsmichaelboothby -- or is it? Send me a follow request and you'll find out. Beyond that, I have a SoundCloud as well. I've got some music online. Unfortunately I had to stop recording because I got a noise violation here in my sister's apartment, but I'm moving to a condo soon, and we'll be producing and recording more music. So if you want to check that out, check that out. I'm also on the Discord as well, so definitely join that amazing community. You know, I pop in there a few times a day and just see see what's going on. Sometimes I just read it but sometimes I like to chime in as well. I like to lurk. I'm a big big lurker.
Christina Kann 1:14:29
So what have you been reading, watching, listening to, playing, etc. lately that you think that the listeners of our podcast would enjoy?
Michael Boothby 1:14:40
I don't think this series even needs any more endorsement than it's already getting. But I've been watching the Squid Game on Netflix. It's amazing. I mean, I was watching the nightly news earlier today for the first time in forever, and even at the very end, they did a whole thing interviewing Netflix. They were like, "This might be the biggest show we've ever had. It's been like tremendously successful." I've had a blast watching it too. At the very first episode, I didn't know that it was dubbed, so the whole time, I was like, "It's not matching up. Why is it not matching up? What's going on here?" And then I realized after, oh it's dubbed. That's become a big thing of contention online. People have been like, "Oh, the dubs are so bad. Watching with subtitles is bad too!" Just fucking watch it. Whichever one. Honestly, the dubs are not bad. I watched it with the dubs. I started that way. Six episodes in, I'm like, "Maybe I should be a purist and watch it in Korean with subtitles," and then I did it for five minutes and was like, "No, I want to go back to the voices. I want the experience of watching it."
Christina Kann 1:15:46
My problem is that I can't just like sit and be still and watch TV. I have to be able to look away from the TV for a couple seconds.
Michael Boothby 1:15:56
That's how I felt too, because I like to move around during -- especially if I'm bingeing, you know, I like to work out a little bit or my body some. If I'm watching four one-hour episodes, you know, gotta move. Gotta move. So, yeah, Squid Game's been dope. Games. If any you guys played video games, I highly recommend The Forest on PlayStation 4 or 5? I mean, I think it's probably another shit too. But it's a fun survival game. You crash in the forest, there's some cannibals. I played it with my best childhood friend who still lives in Orlando, and we've been catching up through video games recently. We've been playing that game. I had this moment where I'm just like chopping wood in the game. Just cutting down trees. I'm doing like all the things that I couldn't do, like building a tent, in this virtual world, but like, it's very zen. While just talking to my best friend about like, whatever. But also role playing a little bit. You know? It's fun.
Christina Kann 1:17:01
Oh, I love that.
Michael Boothby 1:17:02
Check it out. Yeah.
Christina Kann 1:17:03
Hell yeah. Well, thank you for that. I've been your host, Christina. You can follow me on Instagram @christinathekann. You can follow me on twitter @christina_kann and you can follow me on TikTok @sproutsprivatestash. Recently, I've been watching Only Murders in the Building, which has been plugged on this podcast before. It's really excellent. I've also been listening to 5-4 Podcast, which is about the Supreme Court, which Andrew plugged on this podcast, and that's really excellent also. What I would love to plug today is The Nature of Witches by Rachel Griffin. It's a really lovely YA romance about nature magic. It's really nice. It's got some thoughtful commentary about climate change, and a pretty good love story. And it's about like, witchy shit. So it's good to read for the Halloween season. So that's The Nature of Witches by Rachel Griffin. Well, Michael, thank you so much for joining us.
Michael Boothby 1:18:07
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I would love to do this again. Honestly, reading that chapter earlier was such a joy. It was so amazing. And it's cool to be able to talk to people about Harry Potter, right? Because it's kind of an old thing. But it still has such a special place in my heart. But I'd love to come back.
Christina Kann 1:18:29
Absolutely. Yeah, we'd love to have you back. And you can also hear Michael every Sunday on the Movie Night Crew! All right, gang. I gotta go finish reading The International Language of Gambling before this book tries to collect its debts. Bye!
Christina Kann (voiceover) 1:18:52
The Restricted Section is a member of the Movie Night Crew Network, which features other amazing podcasts such as its namesake, the Movie Night Crew, which is an extra chaotic podcast featuring the gang just shooting the shit about whatever movie they just watched.
Christina Kann (voiceover) 1:20:02
The Restricted Section was created by me, Christina Kann, based on the book series by JK Rowling. All music by Ryan Kann. Logo by Michael Hardison. Support us on patreon.com/therestrictedsection. For as little as $1 a month, you can gain access to our Discord community server, which is a really happy place to be. And there are other rewards as well, such as bonus episodes and Zoom happy hour hangouts. Be sure to follow us on Instagram @restrictedsectionpod, on Twitter @restrictedpod, and on Facebook @restrictedsectionpod. Also feel free to shoot us an email at email@example.com to share your thoughts, feelings, complaints, conspiracy theories, or even lavish praise.
Christina Kann 1:20:48
There are certain people who can be trusted with the notes, and certain people who can't, and Grace is the kind of person who can be trusted.
Christina Kann (voiceover) 00:02
"With difficulty owing to their bulky backpacks, the nine of them crowded around the old boot held out by Amos Diggory. They all stood there in a tight circle as a chill breeze swept over the hilltop. Nobody spoke. It suddenly occurred to Harry how odd this would look if a Muggle were to walk up here now -- nine people, two of them grown men, clutching this manky old boot in the semi-darkness, waiting."
Christina Kann (voiceover) 00:47
What's up Pott-heads? Welcome to The Restricted Section, the show in which a bunch of nerds with potty mouths reread the Harry Potter series for the umpteenth time and discuss the way that the story and its themes have stayed with a generation into adulthood. Thank you for being here. If you haven't done the reading, don't worry, we did it for you. Here's what we're talking about today.
Christina Kann (voiceover) 01:07
Chapter Six: The Portkey. Honestly, this whole chapter is summed up by the title. They find, use, and discard the portkey in this one, gang. We're really just learning: what is a portkey? Maybe that will come up again in a moment of crisis. I'm not sure. We get to meet Amos and Cedric Diggory along the way! "Extremely handsome Cedric," that's a direct quote. And now we're all at the Quidditch World Cup.
Christina Kann 01:40
Welcome to The Restricted Section, where old and moldy boots are very valuable. I am delighted to be joined by my dear friend today, Andrew! Say hello to the listeners, Andrew.
Hello, listeners. I'm a little concerned that I'm your friend today. I thought I was your friend most days.
Christina Kann 02:01
Wow, that's a good point. Clarity of language.
It hurts, okay?
Christina Kann 02:06
You got to put commas in places to make it clear what words are grouped together. And I am so excited that our special guest today is friend of the pod Anna! Say hello to the listeners, Anna.
Christina Kann 02:19
Hey, every time I say hello to the listeners, I hear Leila in the back of my head because she one time she sang, "Hello to the listeners, Lelia." But she sings that a lot better than me. But anyway, that's what my head does when I say "Say hello to the listeners." Anna, we're so glad you're here. Why don't you start by telling us a little bit about your Harry Potter history. When, how did you get into it?
The first memory I have is listening to the audiobook in third grade of Prisoner of Azkaban.
Christina Kann (voiceover) 02:51
Oh, would you look at the time? What time is it? It's correction o'clock. All right, Anna didn't even listen to this audio book in third grade, it was fifth grade. Okay, don't get it twisted. Don't go telling people Anna listened to this in third grade, because it's not true, snd you're gonna look like a damn fool.
I'm sure I read the first two before that. But that's the first memory I have of it. And I wasn't cool enough to go to any midnight book releases. So I didn't actually finish the series until probably 10 years ago. I picked it back up and read the whole thing. I'd seen the movies. And yeah, so I started back up about 10 years ago. And then I read it every year, at least once, if not twice, usually in fall/winter.
Christina Kann 03:45
Yes. I tend to read this series -- obviously not anymore because we're reading it very slowly over the course of like 10 years -- but I usually read Harry Potter once every two to three years, and I always start reading it around like October/November, right as I'm starting to spiral into that winter depression. It's like, "Quickly, quickly, something!"
Bring the joy, bring the joy!
Christina Kann 04:07
Yes. Awesome. Well, what Hogwarts house are you?
I like to call myself a Ravenpuff.
Christina Kann 04:16
I love Raymond.
Me too. Every time I take the test, depending on the day or month or whatever, I get either one. It's about 50/50. So I like to claim both.
Christina Kann 04:31
Wow, I love that. Yeah, we're here today to talk about Goblet of Fire chapter six, the Portkey. That's what happens in this chapter.
It is a very descriptive title.
Christina Kann 04:45
Yeah, and we're done! That's it. Thanks for joining me today, gang.
Christina Kann 04:52
Okay, so we wake up. It's the World Cup. Let's go. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Why does Ron get to bring two friends to the World Cup and no one else gets to bring anybody?
Yeah, that's the question. I'm sure it's because their tickets are free, and Harry basically lives there, and it seems like Hermione basically lives there every summer to so works out.
I always thought that it was not by accident that they ended up there. I always figured that Fudge wanted Potter in that box. He wanted him in the press box to show him off. Like, "That's right. We got Harry Potter on top of everything else here." You know, he's like the trophy.
Christina Kann 05:36
That tracks. Here's my question. Why bring Hermione? Who doesn't give even one single shit?
If you're going to try and fandangle your way to get Harry to show up, you don't want him to be suspicious, right?
Christina Kann (voiceover) 05:53
Did you know it's actually against the law for any podcast editor to permit one of their episodes to say "don't be suspicious" without including the following audio clip?
*Don't be suspicious clip*
You don't want it to be obvious that you're just bringing Harry Potter to bring Harry Potter so you're like, "Yeah, bring your whole family! By the way, doesn't your son like the two people? like he has two friends? Not just one, two friends? Why doesn't he bring both of those friends?"
Bring the spare.
Christina Kann 06:26
One of them's muggle born, how good for like muggle relations!
Right? It's a perfect picture.
Christina Kann 06:34
Here's who I would have brought. I think obviously Harry gets to come. He's an orphan. He's never had a single joy in his life. Bring Harry. Bring Lee Jordan, because then two of your kids get to have their best friend there -- like two additional kids. And Lee Jordan loves Quidditch.
Maybe the Weasleys know their children very well. And they also know what's going to go on in the future. Ron was actually -- his friend was Hermione. He doesn't know, but his friend was Hermione, and Ginny's friend was Harry, okay? Molly knows her kids, okay? This woman knows her children. Dhe knew already how the world was going to work out. Your plan actually did happen, Christina. What I'm telling you is, that did happen. It just doesn't look as obvious.
Christina Kann 07:20
You know that the second Ron Weasley brought her Miami Granger into the Weasley household, Molly and Arthur were like, "We have to make this happen. This is his only hope."
This is the only chance he has! Please God let her find him endearing.
Christina Kann 07:40
Get ready for the longest slow burn of your life, Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. Okay, so everyone wakes up at the ass-crack of dawn except for Percy, Charlie, and Bill. They get to Apparate later, and we get a nice little rundown like, what is Apparation? We've never really addressed it before but I get the feeling that's gonna come up in this book.
My copy -- I have the big illustrated one -- Apparate is capitalized every time.
Christina Kann 08:07
It is in every edition.
Really? I have never noticed that before.
Christina Kann 08:12
I'm pretty sure. What about you Anna?
I think so. I'm looking -- Yep, Apparating is capitalized.
Christina Kann 08:18
That bitch loves to capitalize some words. She will capitalize anything.
Christina Kann 08:25
I'm trying to make a "she'll capitalize on blank blank blank" joke but I can't really pull it together.
Well she's continuing to capitalize on this series, so.
Christina Kann 08:34
That's true. I can't emphasize this enough: buy her books secondhand.
Or pirate it!
Christina Kann 08:40
We don't -- wink -- condone -- wink -- pirating -- wink -- unless -- wink -- you're on -- wink -- a boat! In last week's episode, we were wondering if Bill Weasley was a straight-up pirate because he was like, "Gringotts doesn't care what I do as long as I bring home all the treasure," and he has one earring and dragon leather boots. That's pirate shit.
Christina Kann 09:05
And the alternative is that he's just stealing treasure for Britain, which I don't like that.
I feel like that's kind of what's happening because he he lives in Egypt, he goes in the tombs, he gets the treasure from the dead wizards out of the tombs. I mean, sounds like it.
Christina Kann 09:24
He could have, I guess, specialized in wizard banking because he works for Gringotts, but I like to think that he specialized in wizard anthropology and history. So maybe he's helping with the treasure?
Yeah, and like charms and stuff.
Christina Kann 09:40
Oh, yeah, he's a charm breaker too. Oh, he's just so -- "there's no other word for it -- cool." So we're talking about Apparation. Harry starts asking questions, so we have to learn what splinching is. Thanks, Harry.
Everyone else, when you first read this as a child, thought of it as something comical, right?
Christina Kann 10:01
Well he says in the paragraph, he's like "A leg in an eyeball sitting on the ground."
Right, but it's not a gory leg and eyeball. I thought of like a cartoonish, like a well-rounded leg that has no gore.
Christina Kann 10:15
Like a prop.
Yeah, it doesn't even look like it was ever attached to anyone. It's just a perfectly rounded hip into leg.
Christina Kann 10:23
A Barbie like pulled out of its socket.
Christina Kann 10:28
I mean, first they have to like do this to you. They have to give it to you in a comical way because it's the first time you're even hearing of it. And then it escalates. Oh, it escalates. That's one of like the hardest things for me to read in this whole series, when Ron gets splinched in the last book.
All spoilers all the time!
Christina Kann 10:52
He gets splinched, and like, it's bad. The amount of splinched that he gets in the movies is less.
On the scale of one to splinch, he is a solid splinch.
Christina Kann 11:08
Mr. Weasley is just so happy to explain anything. He's probably like, "Harry, this is super boring, but I would love to ask you about plugs. The electrical kind."
You know, my favorites.
Christina Kann 11:22
Mrs. Weasley interrupts in the middle of a sentence because she catches a glimpse of something in George's pocket. I guess I got yelled at as a kid or something because I had a visceral response to this. When George gets snapped at, I was like, "Oh shit, it was me. Oh my god, I'm in trouble. She found it." It's like that split second of like, "Do I lie? Is there any way out?"
Is there any way I could possibly lie? Let's be honest. If you're a certain age, like a certain level of teenager, at least in my case, it wasn't "Will I lie?" It's "Is there any way I could feasibly get away with a lie?" Like is there any possibility whatsoever that a lie could work? And if there is, I'm probably going to try and lie.
Christina Kann 12:10
Also if there's no chance, I probably was still gonna lie. I lied a LOT as a kid. I was a master liar. I lied constantly.
And now I only lie to myself about how happy I am.
Christina Kann 12:24
Now I have gone way too far in the other direction. I should try being a little less honest sometimes. Yeah, so they have their little candies, their Weasleys -- pause -- Wizarding -- pause -- Wheezes. Wait, shit. Is there an -ing on that word? Wait. I thought it was "Wizard Wheezes" but my notes say "wizarding," so now I have to check everything. Okay, my book says "Weasleys Wizard Wheezes," so good for me.
Christina Kann 13:05
I just took the picture of the chapter title where I spelled out "Weasleys Wizard Wheezes" for the Instagram today cuz whoa, spoiler alert: we recorded this exactly one week ago. And I was worried that I had spelled it wrong, but I didn't. Everything's fine. Hey, don't even worry about it. Everything's fine.
We're all good. Everything's okay. Why are we all panicking? You're the only one panicking. No!
Christina Kann 13:29
Well, Mrs. Weasley and the twins, I think, are panicking also, at each other. Molly is accio-ing all of the treats out of the hiding spots on their clothes, like some pretty elaborate hiding spots.
Yeah, they had to like sewed into their jackets.
Here's the thing that does disappoint me -- and I don't know whether I'm disappointed or if this is just proof of how awesome Molly Weasley is. But if anyone is going to fully evade getting their entire stash caught, it's the Weasley twins, right?
Christina Kann 14:03
I'll be honest, I might be showing the fact that I haven't read this book in quite a while, but I don't remember them having any when they get to the World Cup.
Christina Kann 14:13
Presumably, with all the information we have, no, they don't get any of their candies there.
I'm honestly surprised. Is that just how good Molly Weasley is? Or did the did the twins misstep here?
Christina Kann 14:28
I think Molly is that good. And I think probably her accio spell is incredibly good. "Give me that! How did you get that? Hand that to me right now! Stop fighting over this toy. Give it to me." You know, slash, "Wow, that the garden is really far away and I really only need like one basil leaf. So I'm just gonna go ahead and accio that!"
I would be the laziest wizard ever. Ever.
Christina Kann 14:54
I would use technology and then use magic to bridge the gap of laziness that technology still requires you to overcome. Walking the fridge, if your phone is across the room, no, I'm not standing up. What? No! I'm a wizard, and I was muggle born. I am sitting down the rest of my life, thank you very much. I have earned that. I have studied the two worlds. I know the way to combine them. This is my future. I embrace it. I am Wall-E.
Christina Kann 15:31
I was exactly about to say that. Well, good for you, Andrew.
That would be my goal: to float around on my throne and enjoy life to the fullest.
Christina Kann 15:43
I hope you get to achieve that someday. I hope you win the lottery.
Christina Kann 15:50
Yeah, well, this time next week, we'll know. Wow, Andrew, what if you're rich by the time this comes out?
Oh, you wouldn't know. I'd be the only one to know for a while.
Christina Kann 15:58
Please pay off my house. You can hang out here anytime you want to. So Molly Weasley, mad as hell, throws away all of their candy. I do think that is very rude. And I hope she goes back into the trashcan afterwards and puts them in like a little jar for them later. I don't think it is okay at all to completely destroy your child's creative products. You know?
I think those are kind of a health and safety hazard. I think the bigger problem is don't just throw them away; if you're going to dispose of them, incinerate them. If something accidentally eats one of those things, it's dead.
Christina Kann 16:40
What I would probably do is take them and try to figure out exactly what they were and see if I could help make them safer at all. I think just telling your kids, "Fuck you. You don't get to do this thing that's your dream, you're pursuing. We're not talking about it. Just straight-up, fuck you." I think that is a bad parenting move. You know?
I've gotten to the point where I try not to judge parents. I just don't know. I don't know, and on top of that, I'm to the point now that I'm pretty much decided I don't think I'm ever gonna have kids, so like--
Christina Kann 17:17
I'm kind of like the opposite of you, where this is how I would act and maybe that makes me a bad parent. So thank God I'm not gonna have kids. I think I would be -- I was gonna say "a hardass" but I guess not as much of a hard ass as Malia easily.
Molly is super excited about grades; that's her thing. She wants them to have good grades so they can get a good job, but I don't think she's quite computing that all they really want to do is own a shop and do their own stuff. And so I think that's hard for her to come to terms with.
Christina Kann 17:52
Yeah, and Bill and Percy set a really high bar. We've don't really know about Charlie's grades. Any thoughts about what kind of grades Charlie probably got in school?
He probably did. Well, I mean, at least in Care of Magical Creatures, for sure.
Christina Kann 18:10
Christina Kann 18:12
He actually got a good care of magical creatures education with what's-their-face -- the last teacher who was there before.
Christina Kann 18:23
I think it's Grubbly-Plank. Yeah, I feel like he probably got like, not excellent grades but nothing for a parent to fuss at, you know?
He probably was able to get away with it too, because Percy would have been killing it from a young age in the grades department. So he just got that middle child syndrome, where he just--
Christina Kann 18:40
Yeah, they're like, "Two out of our three kids are doing pretty well. Let's not worry about the middle one. Don't worry."
Wasn't he the Quidditch captain though? So he still had his own accomplishments.
Christina Kann 18:50
Was Charlie captain?
I believe so.
Yeah, I think so.
Christina Kann 18:55
I believe you! Yeah, you're right. I believed you but I still -- I don't want to give the listeners false information. This is my job, okay?
You do realize you just cursed us, and at some point in this episode, we are going to give false information. It might have already happened!
Christina Kann 19:12
Oh god! I told you, I got over the lying thing! So they all set out into the dark early morning. I can like almost feel this scene, walking through the white grass before the sun comes out.
It's quite possibly one of my favorite times of year, when you still get the fog in the morning and the dew, but it's still cold and crisp. It hasn't frozen over the fog or the dew yet, but it's still like right on that edge. Gosh.
Christina Kann 19:49
It kind of gives me like traumatic flashbacks also to going to high school at like six o'clock in the morning or whatever. It's either super exciting or like "aw, fuck, school."
So I didn't realize how much of Harry Potter was trauma linked to you.
Christina Kann 20:06
Wow hmm interesting. Well, I guess if you spend like 25% of your life indulging in one specific media series, then probably a lot of trauma gets linked to it. And a lot of joy. That fun trauma. Man, this whole chapter is like kind of an info dump. Harry's like, "How does everyone even get to the World Cup?" So Arthur's just cheerfully explaining portkeys and he's like, "It's a logistical nightmare."
Are you telling me that the international Quidditch community can't get together and just create a permanent place for the Quidditch World Cup? Like I understand it's supposed to be analogous to the regular World Cup, but the difference is that you don't have to hide the regular World Cup from everyone. You don't have to hide the Olympics. In fact, you do quite the opposite. So if you're going to do that, it only makes sense to have -- off in the middle of like the sea, an artificial island that only--
Christina Kann 21:13
Like Azkaban but for Quidditch!
Christina Kann 21:18
That would be so cool. It's in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle. Oh my god.
That's perfect. No one goes there.
That's why it's the Bermuda Triangle.
Christina Kann 21:29
Andrew, the last time you're on an episode, we also talked about the Bermuda Triangle. We talked about Bermuda specifically, actually, not the triangle. So they're climbing this big ass hill. It's called Stoatshead Hill. STOAT. Okay, this is the first time in my life that I've read this series knowing what a stoat is. As a reminder, it's like a weasel, basically, and Hagrid eats them. So they all spread out looking for this portkey, but they don't even know what it is because a portkey's always a piece of garbage or something nobody wants to touch.
Yeah, here's my question. They say they do that so that muggles won't pick it up. But what about people that pick up litter? I pick up litter when I see it in the park?
Christina Kann 22:36
Yeah, I do too.
What if I'm accidentally portkeyed?
Christina Kann 22:39
This is from a shittier time and shittier place, I think. It's like the country of Britain. And it was the mid to late 90s.
The British countryside in '94. '95?
Christina Kann 22:56
I'm trying to remember if Mike in the last episode said exactly what year it is because he tends to know for his elaborate pop culture references, you know? But I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think I would actually get swept away by a portkey. Slash I think I would also desperately not be able to find a portkey I was looking for.
Well, and that's the real sad truth is that in this day and age like portkeys could not work this way because people would be just picking up everything. Just walking along, there's nothing but trash. What could it be? Is it the cigarette carton? Is it the empty Monster Energy drink that is just like sitting --? What could it be? It's literally impossible to tell.
Christina Kann 23:39
Yeah, I think that it's like not unreasonable that Arthur should have been able to find out what this portkey looks like ahead of time. The ministry put it here, right?
If you're going to the effort to put 200 across Great Britain, couldn't you also like keep track of what each one is? Or is a third column on the spreadsheet just too much?
Christina Kann 24:04
Or a map. Just imagine a little map of Britain with little stamps of the little items. That would be adorable and user friendly, easy to read.
And what if you miss your portkey? Do you take the Knight Bus? What do you do? And why is the Knight Bus not a possible option?
Christina Kann 24:22
Ooh, it probably is. But honestly, the Weasleys probably don't fuck with the Knight Bus. That seems like a bit of more of a desperate situation. I would probably end up taking the Knight Bus. "You know, there's a bus for only $20 from here to the Quidditch World Cup?"
Yeah, why would you take muggle transportation if you can take the Knight Bus?
Why would you touch an old boot if you could just take the Knight Bus?
It probably smells.
Christina Kann 24:49
Well, so does the bus.
Christina Kann 24:56
I just think there's just a lot of alternatives that could have happened here. I think Arthur, if they had missed the portkey, I think he probably would have just called somebody to come make a new one -- or he might even be able to make one himself. It's a simple spell that Dumbledore does eventually.
It's literally "portus." Wow, clever.
Then Mad-Eye Moody says something about it's not worth their life creating one unauthorized, so I feel there's a big plot hole where Dumbledore can do it willy nilly, but somebody else goes to try and do it, and there's a notification in the ministry.
Christina Kann 25:39
Dumbledore, though. He can apparate all willy nilly. He can do a lot of things all willy nilly. He needs to put his willy away, honestly.
No one needs to see that.
Christina Kann 25:53
No one needs to see that. They don't find the portkey. There's a shout, though, from someone who has found it. It's Amos Diggory!
How big is this hilltop?
Christina Kann 26:07
Dude, it's like a British moor. It could be like a really big hill.
It's more like a plateau. Cuz it says that they don't see them, and Amos calls from across the hill. I don't know.
Christina Kann 26:20
Maybe there's a lot of trees, but then that would be like an extra hard for the portkey situation.
Yeah! "By the way, good luck looking through the woods, nerd. Go get your moldy boot out of the woods." Everything about this is starting to sound insulting. "We're gonna make you get up real early. You gotta climb a fucking hill."
Christina Kann 26:49
Well, the Lovegoods have been there for two weeks already or whatever because they had the shitty tickets.
I know anything about Luna Lovegood, she digs camping. I don't know why, but that just screams Luna Lovegood to me.
Christina Kann 27:04
Yeah that's the thing with chapters like this. Upon reading this, there's kind of nothing going on. But there's always something going on. There's always shit to pick apart. This portkey business makes absolutely no sense.
Once again, it's one of the things that the illustrious author of this series chose to do many times. It's like they had an idea of how many things they wanted to put in the book, like how many references, and then they just dumped in as much as possible. We'll get these chapters where it's like books worth of future shit that's all just jammed into one chapter.
Christina Kann 27:39
It's poor writing. I know we say this all the time, but when I read this book, I usually barrel through it, so I don't clock these short, inconsequential chapters because they all blur together in this nice little montage of recap and worldbuilding and Molly Weasley's cooking. But reading it chapter by chapter, this is just buildup. This is just walking up a hill.
It's kind of funny because I've had the same effect with reading them slowly and like over the course of years as opposed to days.
Christina Kann 28:18
It's been years!
It really does kind of point out is how good the first few movies were especially, because the first few movies have this episodic feel of these times, right? And when you read the books, especially this one, it's like summer, fall, winter, resolution, right? That's the way that a lot of these books in the series go is that you have the summer shit, then you have the fall is where the problem is introduced, then you have the winter, where everything goes mad and they have a little time by themselves, and then you get to the resolution at the end in the spring.
Christina Kann 28:56
Yeah, actually this setup kind of fucked me up. I expect the same from other series. Like I recently read the Percy Jackson series, and I was like, "Okay well a lot of this takes place at Camp Half-blood, so I guess every book starts in the summertime, at Camp Half-blood and then goes through the school year, and then we start the next book at the next summer at Camp Half-blood." Not at all. This book takes three weeks; this book takes six months; and then in the next book, you're four years older. That's dramatic, but it's more whiplash going around to these different books than I've come to expect from reading Harry Potter.
Christina Kann 29:37
So Amos Diggory has a moldy old boot on each foot, and then he's also holding one. Also there'd Cedric, "extremely handsome," which as a reminder, the narrator definitely is like, pretty much Harry. So...
Harry's like, "Hey, he's hot. Way hotter than Malfoy."
Christina Kann 30:01
I think that makes sense, because the way that he's like, "Dude, honestly there's no other way to describe Bill. He's cool. He's a cool dude. I'm 14. This guy is cool." I feel like Harry looks to Cedric and he's like, "I got nothing. You're extremely handsome."
Cedric is the ultimate good boy, and that's what Harry wants to be is, is an ultimate level. Good boy. He's like, "You look very handsome and look very attractive to everyone. Clearly everyone would be into you."
Christina Kann 30:32
Man, I just haven't found my perfect Cedric. Obviously Robert Pattinson no longer does it for me because it's just not right. The Cedric from Puffs was very good. If you haven't seen that, Anna, I definitely recommend it. But he wasn't this suave, extremely handsome -- he's a bit gawky and kind of Puffy. You know? This Cedric in the books is just like stoic, chiseled, you know? Kind of Kocoum. Catch me bringing up Kocoum at every turn because I married him basically. *singing* Steady as the beating drum. *end singing* So Arthur introduces everyone and we get the classic, "Harry? Harry Potter?" And he's like, Yeah, no, it's me.
By Merlin's Beard!
Christina Kann 31:28
Something that is hard when you're writing a secondary world fantasy or a fantasy like this, where it's a whole subculture that's pretty out of touch with our culture is writing language, writing slang, including profanities and stuff like swearing. And so I really like the way that they do swearing in these books. There's the stuff that the dads say, like "Merlin's beard" is a dad/grandpa thing to say.
They like made their own -- and I only learned this word the other day, so I might be using it wrong -- neo-logo-ism.
Christina Kann 32:05
I think it's neologism.
Neologism. Yeah. Which is a cool word I only learned recently. They did a really good job of creating that, right?
Christina Kann 32:26
"A newly coined word or expression."
Yeah, so it's anything that's brand new slang that isn't established slang yet to like Coke instead of Coca Cola. Right?
Christina Kann 32:40
I see. Yes. By Merlin's beard. I was like, "What the fuck were we talking about? How did we get here?" By Merlin's beard! Amos Diggory is bragging about how Cedric beat Harry at Quidditch the year before. I love Amos Diggory. I love a ride or die. He's obviously a Hufflepuff too, because he's loyal as hell. But yeah, you don't like brag to a bunch of kids about how they lost.
Especially cuz it wasn't even Harry's fault. He almost died.
And the way that he words it too. "If one can hold on to their broom and the other one can't." Okay, that is a vast oversimplification of the situation at hand.
Christina Kann 33:23
it kind of gave me alumni dad vibes where he's like, "Yeah, my kid's on the football team. And this is what you're gonna remember forever, because it's what I remember forever because I peaked in high school."
Christina Kann 33:35
Oooh! Got him. You're absolutely right.
Amos is kind of a douche and I don't feel he's very Puff. I mean, he's very loyal. But he's not very kind.
Christina Kann 33:50
Okay, okay. Is he maybe a Gryffindor?
I don't know, maybe.
Christina Kann 34:01
With his bravado.
Maybe he's just the other side of Hufflepuff where he is very loyal. And it's not that he's trying to be a dick. It's just that he is so loyal to Cedric, and he's going to push that motive even though it might not come out, right or might not sound right.
Kinda like Ernie MacMillan.
Christina Kann 34:28
Oh my god, Ernie fuckin MacMillan. He's kind of like a frat boy Hufflepuff. Even a Hufflepuff in a frat is still gonna act a certain way, you know?
Or a Puffle-bro.
Christina Kann 34:49
So it's time. "Oop, quickly, everyone. It's time right now. We didn't talk about it before. I didn't explain the concept to you. You have no idea what's going on. To me! Quickly. To me!" And everyone touches the portkey.
How strongly do you think you must grasp said portkey?
Christina Kann 35:13
I think like skin to skin.
You think just a fingertip would do?
Christina Kann 35:31
The fingertip is enough. He pokes it with the tip of his finger.
Yeah, I think Mr. Weasley even says, "It'll only take like touching it with your finger."
I really should have paid more attention at the end of the chapter.
You really should have, Andrew.
Christina Kann 35:45
It spells it out!
Yeah, it does say says "You just need to touch the portkey; that's all. A finger will do."
Christina Kann 35:51
Thank you so much, Andrew. You're being a stand-in for the listener who doesn't know anything. And so that way we can explain everything.
I do feel bad. I legitimately read this chapter twice, but nothing happens. And by the time I got to the end of it, I was just like, "ahhhh."
Christina Kann 36:09
Andrew, don't feel bad. One time in college, I was taking a world literature class. And it was like, pretty hard for me. Everything's translated. It's all poetry. I don't really fuck with poetry. And the teacher would do a quiz at the beginning of every class to make sure you had done the reading,pulling stuff from the poems, you had to answer these questions to verify that you had done the reading. And I would read them every time, several times. In fact, it escalated to reading them as many times as I physically could. And I was still failing these quizzes because none of it stuck in my brain at all. Because generally it was a really hard class for me. So I went to the teacher's office hours, and I was like, "Hey, I'm having a really hard time keeping any of this stuff. What do I do?" And she was like, "Honestly, read it more." And I was like, "Okay, well, I'm already reading each of these poems like five or six times," and she was like, "Read it more. I don't know. Remember it better?"
Can you assign us better poems? Is that possible? Like, maybe don't give us crap? Just saying.
Christina Kann 37:08
There is one poem from that class that stuck with me like hell, and I've actually plugged it on this podcast before, but the name is escaping me right now.
That was my least favorite class.
Christina Kann 37:18
Absolutely. Me too. Well, and I had to take it twice.
Christina Kann 37:24
I'm pretty sure I failed it twice, snd then I was just like, "I'll do something else. I don't know."
I will find another path, god dammit.
Christina Kann 37:34
Oh, well, I don't remember the name of that poem. But...
Christina Kann (voiceover) 37:36
"If my heart were a wild bird" by 15th-century Turkish love poetry master Fuzuli. "If my heart were a wild bird, it would nest in your twisted curl / wherever I am, oh jinn, my love is by your side / I'm happy with my suffering / take your hand from the medicine that will cure me / Oh Doctor, do not heal me / the poison that destroys me is your cure / Don't be shy and pull your skirts from the hands of those fallen with love / Take care for the hands which holds your hem / if you suddenly emptied may pray evilly to the sky / The fragments of my shattered heart lay pierced on the spearpoints of your lashes / Go to sleep drunk on your own beauty / and mend my heart by the closing of your eyes / separation from you is death, beloved, the end of life itself / I am bewildered by others who live long apart from you / The wick of your spirit is twisted like the hyacinth curl of the beloved / Hey Fuzuli, you can't hope for release / until you burn like a candle with love's flame."
Christina Kann 38:39
So we're in the middle of a portkey! How did we get so distracted in the middle of a portkey?
Love finds away.
Christina Kann 38:48
So Harry feels this pole like in his gut. And I thought that was interesting because, as I recently mentioned, I recently reread the Percy Jackson series for the first time, and that's also where magic grabs Percy, behind the belly button. Isn't that interesting?
I feel like that happens in a lot of books with magic, that it's in your gut. You have to like reach down into your gut and pull it up.
Christina Kann 39:13
That's so interesting.
Not to totally take this off track, but when I was young, for whatever reason, when I read the word "naval," I thought it was like . . . behind your boob. So I always imagined like being pulled by your boob anywhere that you went.
Christina Kann 39:31
Shut the fuck up!
I don't know why, but I misread it. I guess maybe I thought I read "nipple" or something. But for some reason, to this day, I hear "naval" in regards to a portkey, and I still think boob.
Christina Kann 39:57
Gods grant that none of us gets yanked by our boobs anywhere.
Thank the lord.
That sounds like an old Greek punishment in Tartarus, being led by the breast around.
Is that why some people have three nipples?
Christina Kann 40:14
This is my punishment nipple!
Harry Styles has four!
Harry Styles has four. He must be in extra trouble.
Christina Kann 40:27
Does Harry Styles really have four nipples?
I think so.
Same some for the rest of us.
Christina Kann 40:37
Obviously, I fact-checked this one, and here is what I learned from the article "Harry Styles Has Four Nipples and Here's the Scientific Reason Why," which was posted in LadBible earlier this year. He does have four nipples, they're tiny. They're cute. It's explained in this article that sometimes when human beings are developing, nipple cells just wander. So it's not uncommon to have extra nipples. It turns out Mark Wahlberg has three nipples. And that's the only other example this article gives. But um, but there you go. Four nipples. Double your pleasure.
Christina Kann 41:21
If you do have a third nipple that's exclusively for punishment, surely it's pierced, right?
It's not, it will be.
Christina Kann 41:33
We always spiral really hard right before the very last thing that happens in the chapter.
How do we land this portkey?
Christina Kann 41:42
Yeah well, they land. They're here.
Oh, we did it!
I feel like it sounds like maybe Cedric Diggory has taken a portkey before, because him, Mr. Diggory, and Mr. Weasley are still standing, and everybody else is on the ground.
Christina Kann 41:59
Oh, I wonder if it's an easy way to travel with kids. I don't know if floo powder costs money, but making a portkey is free. So maybe Amos Diggory got certified in portkey magic, or whatever, since you can't do it unless you're allowed to.
And he works for the ministry.
Christina Kann 42:19
Yeah, exactly. Maybe they have classes on the weekends.
Yeah. It could also be the opposite though it could it be that it's a sign of prestige because you have the connections to get the portkey approved. Right?
Christina Kann 42:30
Maybe it's actually the elitist thing to take portkeys. "Amos Diggory grew up taking Cedric everywhere by portkey just because he could. No other reason."
Christina Kann 42:43
Just as a reminder, the Diggorys also live in Ottery St. Catchpole. So I don't know if there's a lot of wealth going on in that area. It just feels to me like a bunch of country families. Yeah, the Lovegoods as well. The Lovegoods and the Weasleys, those are both very British countryside, children running around bare feet in the garden. This place can't be real. Actually, what if I'm talking about a real place?
Where the children famously run barefoot.
Christina Kann 43:21
The fact that Harry Potter came up first doesn't mean this isn't a real place. *gasps* It is! It is real.
It's not Israel.
Christina Kann 43:32
it's located in Devon, England. Oh my god, wait, I need to look at photos.
You know that this place, you could probably watch a graph of its tourism industry just jump right around 2004-2005.
Christina Kann 43:50
Wow, prank's on me because obviously all of the images of this place are just from Harry Potter in the Google image search. Okay, I'll do more research about that later. Um, anyway, we're here. We're at the Quidditch World Cup. Any last words about the chapter? Anything we didn't touch on? Anything we should touch a little bit more?
That third nipple.
Always touch the third nipple.
Always go for the third nipple. It's just good advice. Solid advice.
Christina Kann 44:22
No, I don't think there's anything.
Christina Kann 44:28
Okay, great. Well, let's move on to some plugs. I would like to start by plugging our Patreon. There's a lot of really dope stuff going on over there for patrons. The $5 a month tier gets you access to our monthly bonus episodes, which are -- no offense to the main feed -- but they're more fun and generally better. This month, our bonus episode we'll be sorting Brooklyn 99 characters into Hogwarts houses. So get ready for that. I'm freaking excited. I'm pretty torn about some of these characters.
Oh no, I'm going to have to re-binge a bunch of Brooklyn 99 because it's actually been a while since I've watched it.
Christina Kann 45:25
I've been re-bingeing for this purpose, and it's a fucking delight. It's better the second time. Um, so anyway, join us on our Patreon, and for as little as $1 a month you can be part of our Discord community server, which is a really happy place to be. Andrew and Anna hang out there. So come join us. Andrew, what do you have to plug this week since you cannot be found on the internet?
I've recently discovered the Apple TV show The Morning Show, and it is absolutely fantastic. It's Jennifer Aniston and Steve Carell and bunch of other people. It's absolutely fascinating. Oh, what is her name? I can't remember. Witherspoon. Reese Witherspoon. That's it.
Christina Kann 46:20
Christina Kann 46:23
But you have to split those points equally. 5 to each Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. Yeah.
Yeah, it's a great show. The first season is really well done. It's a really cool show. I highly recommend it.
Christina Kann 46:46
Hell yeah. Thank you so much -- which, I've realized, is what I always say after every single person's plug. Hell yeah. Thank you so much.
Hell yeah. Thank you so much.
Christina Kann 46:57
Anna, do you want to be found on the internet?
You can find me in the Discord! I occasionally post there. And I mostly lurk and just like people's posts.
Christina Kann 47:11
And that's a really important role.
Yes, it is. And you can find me on Instagram, but my profile is private. So if I don't recognize who you are, I'm sorry.
Christina Kann 47:25
But what you are saying is if I already know, you find me on Instagram.
Christina Kann 47:37
So what do you have to recommend that you've been watching, reading, listening to, etc lately that you think our listeners might enjoy?
I've been watching Only Murders in the Building on Hulu.
Christina Kann 47:49
That's next on my list. I haven't seen it yet.
It's so good. And the episode this week was told from like a deaf person's perspective. And I took sign language in high school and college, so I find that really fascinating and important. The whole episode is basically silent. When he's on the screen, you hear nothing, but if he's not in the scene, then you hear background noises but the characters don't speak. It's such a fun little romp. It's Selena Gomez and Martin Short and Steve Martin. Someone is murdered in their building, and they decided to start a podcast to figure out what happened. So yeah, it's really fun. I highly recommend it. I'm super loving it.
Christina Kann 48:40
Awesome. I'm really excited to check that one out. Personally, I've been your host Christina. I'm going to plug something that I've already plugged on this podcast. You should read The Seven and a Half Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle.
We've been talking about it a lot in the Discord, and it makes me want to read it so bad. So it's on my ever towering list of TBR.
Christina Kann 49:35
It is written by Stuart Turton. And it is one of the most unique, artful, surprising books I've ever read in my life. And I've read thousands of books. This book caught me off guard. It's pretty hard to do that. I'm not trying to brag; I'm just saying send me book recommendations that you think are gonna catch me off guard, please, for the love of God. And I'm recommending The Seven and a Half Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle by Stuart Turton. I fuckin love it and it's making its rounds because around the friend group because once you read it you can't stop talking about it. Well, Anna, thank you so much for joining us. I'm so happy to finally get you on the pod.
Thanks, me too. I'm glad to be here.
Christina Kann 50:17
And Andrew, my fearless co-pilot. I gotta go finish reading Just Get There! Off the Grid Portkey Creation before this book disappears without me. Bye.
Mike, Brooke Matherly, Christina Kann
Christina Kann 00:02
"This had to be Charlie, who worked with dragons in Romania. Charlie was built like the twins: shorter and stockier than Percy and Ron, who were both long and lanky. He had a broad, good-natured face, which was weather-beaten and so freckly that he almost looked tanned. His arms were muscular, and one of them had a large, shiny burn on it. Bill got to his feet, smiling, and also took Harry's hand. Bill came as something of a surprise. Harry knew that he had worked for the wizarding bank, Gringotts, and that Bill had been Head Boy at Hogwarts. Harry had always imagined Bill to be an older version of Percy: fussy about rule-breaking and fond of bossing everyone around. However, Bill was -- there was no other word for it -- cool. He was tall, with long hair that he had tied back in a ponytail. He was wearing an earring with what looked like a fang dangling from it. Bill's clothes would not have looked out of place at a rock concert, except that Harry recognized his boots to be made, not of leather, but of dragonhide." It's hot. They're both so hot.
Christina Kann 01:32
What's up, Pott-heads? Welcome to the Restricted Section, the show in which a bunch of nerds with potty mouth we read the Harry Potter series for the umpteenth time and discuss the way that the story and its themes have stayed with a generation into adulthood. Thank you for listening. If you haven't done the reading, don't worry, we did it for you. Here's what we're talking about this week.
Christina Kann 01:51
Chapter Five: Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes. Harry makes it safely to the Weasleys' house, but the twins are anything but safe when Molly learns that they fed a Ton-Tongue Toffee to Dudley Dursley. She's mad all day until finally the family sits down for a nice dinner before going to bed early because they all have to get up early for the Quidditch World Cup tomorrow. Did I mention that we get to meet Bill and Charlie? Because we do.
Christina Kann 02:22
Welcome to the Restricted Section, where we firmly condemn entrepreneurship of any kind! If you don't work for the government, we're not proud of you! I am delighted to be joined by my amazing friend -- I didn't pre-choose adjectives -- Brooke! Say hello to the listeners, Brooke.
Brooke Matherly 02:39
Hello. I am in fact a government employee, so it all works out!
Christina Kann 02:45
And we are delighted to be joined as well by Mike today! Say hello to the listeners, Mike.
Hello! I am a proud unemployed American.
Christina Kann 02:53
That deadbeat husband of yours.
Brooke Matherly 02:57
That's alright. I like being a sugar mama. It's a power dynamic that works well for me.
It's pretty kinky.
Christina Kann 03:03
Mike, it's been a hot minute since you've been on the podcast. How have you been?
I've been great. You know, just living in this semi-post-apopcalyptic world that we call America in 2021. You know, just waiting for the zombies to show up. Right?
Brooke Matherly 03:18
I don't mean to fully call you you out, but it's good that there's a point to it. You accidentally misspoke and said "apopcalyptic," and that would be such a great album name for like a pop album.
So here's another thing. I've been married to an English major. So that in its own right is trauma.
Christina Kann 03:41
I though you were gonna make an "apoplectic" joke.
...And anyways, she's friends with other English majors.
Christina Kann 03:50
It means like so mad that you like can barely talk, right?
Brooke Matherly 03:54
I don't know. You've out-vocabed me on that one.
Christina Kann 03:57
What? Apoplectic. I'm googling it. And it means "overcome with anger or extremely indignant," and you often see it like "I'm apoplectic with rage."
Brooke Matherly 04:09
Folks, she nailed it.
Damn, things I thought I would be doing with my Wednesday night.
Christina Kann 04:16
So we are here today to talk about the Goblet of Fire, Chapter Five: Weasleys' (pause) Wizard (pause) Wheezes. Crushed it.
Brooke Matherly 04:27
There is simply no way to say this any faster than you just said it right there.
Christina Kann 04:31
Just say www! ... dot weasleys wizarding wheezes dot com
Brooke Matherly 04:38
I have like a Reese's Piecies / Reese's Pieces moment with this, where I always think that it's Weasleys' Wizard Wheezies instead of wheezes.
Christina Kann 04:49
What does this name even mean?
Brooke Matherly 04:51
I think -- wheezes being like you're wheezing with laughter.
Christina Kann 04:56
Brooke Matherly 04:57
So they're like wizarding jokes that will make you wheeze with laughter, and they're made by the aforementioned Weasleys.
Christina Kann 05:05
Right. I probably would have just called my company like Weasleys and left it at that because it's kind of cute by itself.
Brooke Matherly 05:12
But aren't they like an old magic family? Like, that's the thing, right? Like people would know.
Christina Kann 05:19
They could be a bank, or like a law firm. Weasley, Weasley, Weasley, and Weasley,
Brooke Matherly 05:24
Or a grocery store. Grocery stores be named everything.
Christina Kann 05:27
Oh, yeah, that's true.
Brooke Matherly 05:29
Like a Kroger is not inherently food-based.
Yeah, also, if you met somebody named Kroger, you want to just automatically be like, "Oh, of the Krogers."
Brooke Matherly 05:39
A grocery man, I see.
Christina Kann 05:42
A grocer indeed.
A fine American family, the Krogers.
Christina Kann 05:48
So the chapter starts with Harry flooing really hard into the Weasleys' kitchen. He's escaping the last chapter. He left Dudley with his tongue growing, Uncle Vernon throwing china, Aunt Petunia screaming in fear, and Arthur just trying to figure it out.
Brooke Matherly 06:09
I just love that as soon as he's out the fireplace, Fred's just like "DID HE EAT IT???" It's just like the most like boy prank moment of "Did it work?"
Christina Kann 06:23
Yeah, it definitely was premeditated, for sure, evidently. Fred explains that he and George invented these candies, and they've been looking for someone, anyone, to test them on.
Brooke Matherly 06:39
I'm surprised they didn't get any takers from within their family, to have your tongue grow up to a ton in weight out of your mouth.
Christina Kann 06:48
Yeah, maybe if I was like a parent, I would be like, "Okay, I can probably fix anything you might do to me," but like, maybe not though.
Brooke Matherly 06:57
But his parents are not supportive of this nonsense, right? It's not like when your daughter's like, "I want to be a hairdresser!" and you're like "Alright, you get to cut this section of hair." You know what I mean? Like, so that you can try it out or like you know, you let your three-year-old put makeup on you.
Christina Kann 07:17
Brooke Matherly 07:18
Yeah, if this goes wrong, we're dealing with new magic.
Christina Kann 07:25
Well, it's true it's true, but also they've been trying it on themselves, so I feel like that would help persuade me. If you've done it on yourself like six times, and it's worked fine every time, I might try it.
Brooke Matherly 07:34
Maybe probably. I like to think that -- okay, they've been obviously making these all summer, and they've been looking for someone to try it out on. Does that mean that the twins have just been like up in the kitchen? Like just baking up a storm of toffees?
Christina Kann 07:52
Interesting. That's a good question.
Brooke Matherly 07:54
You can't magic food, right? That's one of the rules.
Christina Kann 07:59
If you have the ingredients, you could -- they could like be magic thing it in their -- Oh, I don't think they're allowed to do magic. But actually, they might be able to. I don't remember
Brooke Matherly 08:10
Christina Kann 08:11
They're not old enough, but I think we've talked before about how maybe kids who have magical parents can do magic at home because how can they tell it's not the parents?
Brooke Matherly 08:20
Christina Kann 08:20
But they could be using like a cauldron or something in their bedroom.
Brooke Matherly 08:25
I mean, we do here later in the chapter that people have been hearing bangs coming from their room for quite some time.
Christina Kann 08:32
Yeah, indeed. I guess that's when the potion doesn't quite work.
Brooke Matherly 08:40
My headcanon: The reason that Molly is so upset by this is because she has been working with the twins all summer to perfect a toffee recipe that she thought she was passing down to them as an important family recipe, only to find that they've been enchanting it to cause nonsense.
Christina Kann 08:54
Oh my god that's like if my grandma gave me her beloved family brownie recipe and I was like "Alright, I'm gonna put some weed in it, though!" She'd be like, "That is not what this recipe was intended for."
Brooke Matherly 09:06
Christina Kann 09:09
My grandma used to give me $20 bills in college and say "Don't spend this on weed!" and I would feel like, "Well it's the only 20 I have on me, so I'm gonna spend it on weed for sure."
Brooke Matherly 09:18
You gave me cash! If you don't want it spent on weed, write a check!
Also, way to date yourself, cuz man, that's a simpler time. $20? Wow.
Christina Kann 09:32
I used to need a lot less weed to go on. Because of the post-apocalyptic America that we live in, as you mentioned previously.
Christina Kann 09:41
So let's talk about how Fred and George given this candy to Dudley is bullying. This kid hasn't done anything malicious in like three books, honestly.
Brooke Matherly 09:51
I mean yes, but also no. He's got a lasting legacy of shittiness.
Yeah, I gotta I gotta stop that because I think the fact is we've all been reading this book very slowly, chapter by chapter -- what are we going on? Over a year now? Whereas a lot of us, when we first consumed these books, chugged through like 2, 3, 4, some of us like five books, all literally in one magical go. So in a lot of ways across the whole psyche of many readers, you get this aspect of "No, fuck him. I still remember him for the first book. He's a piece of shit." Whereas if you were to read it very slowly, yeah, you would be kind of like, "Why are they--? Come on! It's been a couple years now, guys. Let it go."
Christina Kann 10:38
Yeah, especially Fred and George, because they've never even met the kid. They don't know how skewed Harry's storytelling might be. They're older and they're magical.
Brooke Matherly 10:48
But they're also just like down to clown at a moment's notice. That is their entire character type. Fred and George are 100% of the people that you can call at three am because you're in prison in Alabama. And they're just like, "All right, we're coming."
Christina Kann 11:03
For the record, I would come for you in prison in Alabama if you needed me to.
Brooke Matherly 11:07
Thank you so much. I intend to never get imprisoned in Alabama.
Christina Kann 11:10
Well, not in Alabama!
For the record, I would not one because -- yeah, there's a lot of reasons. Going back to the Weasley brothers, I think this chapter is probably a really actually important chapter. And I know it might get overlooked because it's so short, and it's kind of like, you know, a little bit of fluff. But I think one of the reasons why this chapter is so important is because, in a lot of ways, Goblet of Fire is the first real deal adult, serious Harry Potter book. And I think for a lot of fans, it is that key, pivotal moment, where it's like, "Okay, we went from fun little adventures on the side, to now a coherent plot that will follow through for the rest of the series. And I think JK Rowling uses the Weasley brothers in a lot of ways like Shakespeare -- me and Brooke just saw Henry the Fifth. And I was thinking back--
Christina Kann 12:02
Ooh, my second-favorite Henry!
Yeah. And I keep thinking back -- there's this reoccurring theme with the soldiers that are just goofing off. And when you watch it, you're kind of like, "What's the point of this?" But they add a lighthearted moment, and they add a fun little distraction. Because in this book, we're dealing, finally, with the serious ramifications of magic, magic law, magical powers, magic can kill now. Here we see people enjoying magic as a child would enjoy magic: for fun, for laughter, for jokes. And they constantly remind us of that, and I think that's why it's on full display here. Yeah, they're doing all these things, but it's harmless. Like, look what they did to the Dursleys. But it's like "Ah, it's okay." Whereas everything else in this book, we see magic being used, and it's permanent. It can be like, you get hurt. But with the Weasley brothers, you're kind of like, "Hey, that was a fun little ride. Don't do it again."
Christina Kann 13:07
Later in the book, they turn Neville into a canary suddenly.
Also, that's why I would have a threesome with them.
Christina Kann 13:12
Dude, you just feel like it'd be a good time. You feel like there'd be some jokin and even if there's something awkward that happened during it all, you know you could just laugh about it afterwards.
Brooke Matherly 13:22
I feel like friend George would play really upbeat music in the background and like dance when they're not directly involved, you know?
Christina Kann 13:28
Yeah, I think having a threesome with those two would be pretty fantastic.
Christina Kann 13:36
The twins definitely like house music, I think, for what it's worth.
Brooke Matherly 13:44
My number-one threesome pairing of the Weasley family gets introduced in this chapter.
Christina Kann 13:50
I was gonna say! Is this the best segue ever? Go ahead.
Brooke Matherly 13:54
Bill and Charlie are literally in the house!
Christina Kann 13:58
Yeah, they're in the house. Harry's never met them. Charlie is muscular and burned and hot, and Bill is tall and rock and roll and cool and hot.
Brooke Matherly 14:09
So here's the thing. The initial characterization that we get when we meet Charlie is probably some of my favorite character introduction that we get in this series. These are the two best introductions in the entire series.
Christina Kann 14:21
Yes! It paints such a picture for these characters that ultimately are pretty inconsequential.
Christina Kann 14:26
Brooke Matherly 14:26
The first time that Harry meets Charlie, he literally -- it's he holds out his hand to shake it, and it says that "Harry shook, feeling calluses and blisters under his fingers." To have that be the first thing you learn about a character, I'm just like, "Yes!" You get it immediately. This is a man that does hard shit. You know?
Brooke Matherly 14:28
You know, he's a little bit stockier. We get like the fact that, yeah, he's got recent burns on his hands. I do only just want to contest the fact that Bill -- to say that Bill is unmistakably cool is a very '90s conception of cool, because he is introduced as wearing a fang earing, his hair in a ponytail, and wearing dragonskin leather boots. I don't know how much rock and roll that is, as much as it is just like, Aerosmith, you know what I mean?
I always imagined him being Billy Idol except with red hair. You know? If you've ever seen press photos of Billy Idol, like '80s Billy Idol, you just expect him to be like, "With a Rebel Yell!"
Brooke Matherly 15:48
A single fang earring just reads as very Crocodile Dundee to me.
Christina Kann 15:52
I think he would rock it. I imagine him wearing almost like a -- Oh my God, I don't know the kind of jacket it is -- almost like a Victorian-era -- like a knee length dragon leather jacket or something very hip to tie the whole outfit together.
Brooke Matherly 16:10
See, I thought you were talking about a My Chemical Romance Black Parade jacket.
Christina Kann 16:14
Oh, yeah, like that! Just like that. Yeah. Um, so my notes that I wrote a long time ago encourage me to now initiate a detailed conversation about who you would fuck, and it reminds me to refer to our Twitter poll from July 28 and 29th of this year. So I went back in time on the Twitter. I asked on our Twitter: Who would you fuck? Bill or Charlie? And we got a whopping 23 votes. I think this is pretty much the hottest debate of this series, except for that it's so overwhelmingly skewed every time.
Brooke Matherly 16:52
Is it all Charlie?
Christina Kann 16:53
35% said Bill and 65% said Charlie.
Brooke Matherly 16:58
Here's the thing: Charlie is introduced as sexy, strong manly man, and Bill is introduced as a banker with an earring.
Christina Kann 17:11
That reminds me of my friend's stepdad has an earring that he got really recently, you know?
Brooke Matherly 17:16
Right. That's what I'm saying. You get a couple of teases about what it is he does, but it's like, "As long as I find treasure, it's fine." But you work for a bank. I grew up with a parent who worked for the bank and like, singular earrings and male ponytails are not the vibe of a bank.
Christina Kann 17:37
Yeah, I mean, I definitely would super consensually fuck Bill enthusiastically. But, as Haley said in a Twitter comment on our poll from July of 2021, which is this year, Haley said, "I mean, no hate to Bill. He's objectively hot. I just have a type and it's butch himbo nature boy." There's just something very like chaotic wilderness energy, you know?
Brooke Matherly 18:04
Christina Kann 18:05
Almost like a puckish figure. He dances with dragons!
Brooke Matherly 18:08
I see that.
Nah, dude. Do the twins.
Christina Kann 18:12
I'm not gonna do both the twins!
Well, that's just because you're not adventurous. Do the twins.
Christina Kann 18:19
The twins are gigantic though. Not their penises. They're just tall. Those actors are like 6'3" at least. They're very tall.
Like I said, you know, take a fun ride, enjoy it. I'm not saying date them. Hell, I'm not even saying go on a date with them. I'm just saying text them late at night, "Hey, you up?" and just you know, go over there and just have some fun.
Brooke Matherly 18:41
I'm so afraid that I would reach out in the dark to grab a penis and it would turn into a mouse to startle me.
And that's the fun of it. That's kind of the fun of it. You don't know if they're laughing at you or laughing with you.
Brooke Matherly 18:56
But I do know that they're laughing inside me.
Christina Kann 19:02
Oh, I how do I transition from this into like, disciplining your children?
Brooke Matherly 19:08
That's the thing: Mr. Weasley comes in so hot, like, "I am going to be a disciplinarian in this moment."
Christina Kann 19:14
It's so funny to me -- Here's the thing. If Sean and I had seven children, we would be these people. And sometimes, we're interacting with the cats, and I'm like, "This is why we can't have kids." And it's things like this, where Arthur obviously wasn't going to tell Mrs. Weasley, who's been on this mission all summer of trying to set her kids on track. He's like one of the kids who's like, "Now we all know your mother is a hardass. So I'm not gonna tell her." I think part of the problem is that the kids think it's hilarious and they're roaring with laughter, and Arthur is like, "I just had to deal with so many, so many things before I left that house."
Brooke Matherly 19:56
I mean, he brings up the fact that he's mostly upset because of the mistreatment of Muggles issue.
Christina Kann 20:01
Brooke Matherly 20:02
This speaks to his like only hobby as a wizard. He's like, "I had a moment finally in a Muggle household to just be there with their Muggle things. I was looking at outlets. I was having the grandest of times, even though we had to do all this crazy shit to get Harry out. This was a moment for me, and you decided to unprovoked attack a Muggle in my goddamned presence."
Christina Kann 20:29
They insist that they gave this candy to him, not because he's a Muggle, but because he's "a great bullying git," which is not completely untrue, nut he just wasn't doing anything this summer. He was very scared already. Anyway, Arthur's like, "You wait till I tell your mother," and then Molly immediately enters the room.
Brooke Matherly 20:48
Like "Tell me what?" And Arthur's immediately like, "I was not intending to tell you anything."
"Yeah, this was a hollow threat at best."
Christina Kann 20:58
"I don't know where to go from here."
Brooke Matherly 21:03
"Tell you what, I'll tell you what. Harry and the twins are having a real lark, and you just can't -- you can't dance like that in the middle of a floo powder session."
"I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you what. The twins definitely weren't railin' some chick, that's for sure."
Christina Kann 21:21
See, Arthur is a bad liar. We have no evidence for this. But he definitely is.
Brooke Matherly 21:29
He has the demeanor of a bad liar.
Christina Kann 21:32
Yeah, he's just too good. Sean's the same way. Sean is a terrible liar. He just can't fake it. I just want to make a note of this and then we'll move swiftly on. A lot of the last two chapters we spent harping on how grotesquely obese and like waddling Dudley Dursley was, and Molly Weasly is also fat, and she gets described as "plump" because she's a good person.
Brooke Matherly 22:02
She gets the Santa Claus treatment.
Christina Kann 22:04
She gets the Santa Clause treatment! She's like joyfully plum.
Brooke Matherly 22:11
Plump and jolly.
Look, she definitely doesn't suffer from diabetes. She's just living her best life.
Brooke Matherly 22:19
They're ostensibly superduper poor, but if they're super duper poor, she sews her own clothes, she's overweight and harried. She's got seven kids to keep track of and two of them are barely graduating from school. But you know what, like, she's a really nice person. She's so happy though.
Christina Kann 22:38
Right. It's immediately clear that Mr. Weasley was not actually going to tell Molly, as we mentioned. Enter Hermione and Ginny. They're just standing there; everyone's just standing there, and then the Molly-Arthur-twins thing really escalates very quickly.
Brooke Matherly 23:02
Movie Hermione would never pick up on the social cues inherent to this conversation and be like, "Hey, Ron, Harry, welcome. We should go check out where Harry is going to be staying so he can put his bags down." And Ron's like, "Huh?" and she's like, "We should go now." Movie Hermione would just be like, "I don't understand human interaction is this book?" You know what I mean?
Christina Kann 23:27
It's even more subtle. She's like, "We can all go," Hermione said pointedly. There is a lot more subtlety of dialogue here, I think, because just writing that someone does something pointedly is a lot easier than getting a 14-year-old actress to say something very pointedly.
Yeah, I think the big key point is you have a dialogue that's written by an adult versus a dialogue that has to be acted out by a child. And at the end of the day, there's always going to be limitations to that.
Christina Kann 23:57
Yeah, totally. So Harry Ron, Hermione, and Ginny leave. They're walking up -- There's like a whole, like West Wing like, montage -- not montage, but like -- what am I trying to say? The one shots of them walking down the hall--
Brooke Matherly 24:15
A walk and talk?
Christina Kann 24:15
A walk and talk! But it's just up the stairs, up those seven flights of stairs or whatever. Ron's explaining to Harry what is Weasleys Wizarding Wheezes. We learned that Molly found some order forms in the twins' room. They are obviously going to want to start selling these at Hogwarts next year. They have loads of trick wizard shit. But obviously it is kind of dangerous. So Molly put her foot down and burned their order forms.
Brooke Matherly 24:49
The most ridiculous part of this is the fact that Molly's so against it. Dude, your kids have an entrepreneurial spirit. They've actually created products that are well above what they should be able to do at this point in their lives. And they have successfully already taken orders -- they've sold them already. They're doing it. They've got a frickin Etsy shop.
Imagine if Bill Gates, who started his company -- was it Bill Gates or Steve Jobs? One of them started their company in the garage. Imagine if their parents had come in and be like, "Get your shit out of my garage! I need to park our car."
Brooke Matherly 25:23
"That's a lot of electric wires. That looks dangerous."
Christina Kann 25:29
Yeah. Molly was already mad because the twins didn't get as many OWLs as she expected. How did the fuck do OWLs work? How do you get one? What does that mean?
Brooke Matherly 25:40
I think if you pass it, you get it.
Christina Kann 25:43
That's such a weird way to phrase it.
Brooke Matherly 25:45
I think they're all done on a pass-fail system.
Christina Kann 25:48
I don't know, I think it's supposed to harken to a lot of standardized testing. Don't forget, in England, their school system is much more stricter. So I forgot what we had in school -- I think it was called like the Topeka or something like that.
Christina Kann 26:07
Yeah, it was like a standardized test, and they gave it some dumb name. But I think it's supposed to be like that. It's like, "Oh, you're supposed to get your standardized mark." So like, the concept was there's a standardized test, and if you don't do well on them, that's bad.
Brooke Matherly 26:24
They are individual examinations in a variety of things. I think to get an OWL means that you passed that particular examination, because they take a lot of them. They take like seven.
Christina Kann 26:33
But what does that mean? For their school career? Can they not continue taking classes in a subject if they don't get an OWL in it the previous year?
Brooke Matherly 26:45
I think so. I think that it like tests you into upper levels of things. If you took a French language proficiency test, and they were like, "You don't get to go to Advanced French, because you cannot write a whole essay in French, and that's a required skill for the upper level."
I think that's a very, like I said, a very European mindset. You know, Europeans, their education is very structured. And then as you go further up, it becomes much more narrow, whereas American education is very broad, very much a liberal arts kind of get your tastes in everything. And I think maybe it's kind of a concept that as an adult, if you didn't get OWLs in that, they're like, "Well, you can't open up this store. You can't practice this kind of magic, because you didn't do good in transfiguration. Therefore, you cannot practice transfiguration."
Brooke Matherly 27:32
Well, I don't know that it's that you can't ever do it, but I think it just disqualifies you. With the UK university system, there undergraduate degrees are only three years long, because you do your first year of your undergraduate degree in high school, like our version of high school, because you've already tested into a university track or a non-university track.
Christina Kann 27:55
Brooke Matherly 27:56
And then you've already picked a specialization by that point. So you already know. So I think this is meant to kind of roughly approximate that system. I think you take OWLs in a large number of subjects and you take fewer NEWTs later on.
Christina Kann 28:13
Yeah, I think that in book five before his OWLs, Harry does career guidance with McGonagall. And that's pretty much what that is.
When she wrote this book, I don't think she ever really imagined a worldwide audience. I think she was just hopeful like, "Maybe this will take off in England and some other Commonwealth countries." So I think there are things that are intentionally added -- maybe not even by her maybe later by our editors -- where they were like, "Kids will relate to this better if we have these generic concepts that are similar, but not too similar, to what most kids go through in school."
Christina Kann 28:53
Yeah, that makes sense. The Weasley twins told Molly that all they want to do after school is open a joke shop. Molly wants them to go into the government. It's just so funny because like, obviously not with this much chaos. They're not going into the government! She's in denial, I think.
Brooke Matherly 29:11
Well, we've also talked about the fact that there are ostensibly three career tracks in the entirety of the wizarding world.
Christina Kann 29:16
And they're not going to be teachers!
Brooke Matherly 29:18
Yeah, it's teachers government or entrepreneurship. They are too chaotic for teacher or government. This is the only option left to them. What are they supposed to do otherwise, Molly?
Christina Kann 29:26
Yeah, exactly. So they are still walking up the stairs. They meet Percy on the landing. He comes out of his room in a huff and asks them to shut up from "thundering up and down the stairs."
Brooke Matherly 29:42
Okay, so he has this weird conversation with them about standardizing cauldron bottoms, because he's saying foreign imports have been a little bit on the thin side and it's causing extra leakage. Is this an intentional "made in China" joke? Is that what we're to take here? The classic thing of "Made in China isn't exactly a mark of quality there!" You know what I mean? Is that what this is alluding to?
If you think about it from a geopolitical standpoint -- once again going back to the brilliance of JK Rowling -- she foresaw a lot of the trade issues that would become issues--
Christina Kann 30:25
Mike has a knife in his hand. I just want everyone to know.
--and America and the current destabilization of the supply chain. Really, I think she foresaw that, and I think what she's trying to really hint at and warn her readers is that, you know, Tesla stock and Bitcoin is definitely going to roll in, and if you're not doging on the Robin Hood -- so I think that's really what she was trying to get at.
Christina Kann 30:55
Yeah, we can look for some more throughout the rest of the chapter. Percy's just bragging about work.
Brooke Matherly 31:04
Okay, did Percy graduate? Is that what happened?
Christina Kann 31:06
Yeah, last year.
Brooke Matherly 31:07
This is his like job job.
Christina Kann 31:09
Yes. His job job. Cuz he was Head Boy last year.
Brooke Matherly 31:12
I'm kind of shocked that he didn't try harder to move out.
Dude, what? 18 year old --? I'm sorry, man. I was a 19-year-old like waiting tables at Olive Garden. What 18-year-old is just sitting there being like *pretentious noises* like, come on, man.
Brooke Matherly 31:29
I could see Percy being like, "From a logical perspective, I save a lot of money by staying at home with my parents." But clearly he's not happy here. He's like, "There's so much chaos all around me." Yeah, there's always gonna be, dude.
Christina Kann 31:40
Yeah, maybe he's waiting to see how it is when the kids go to school for the year, though.
Brooke Matherly 31:45
Also maybe the wizarding housing market is pretty stifled.
Christina Kann 31:50
Yeah, where is he gonna move to like live near other--? I guess London because that's where the Ministry is.
Once again going back to like English culture and European culture in general, that's very very common.
Christina Kann 32:02
What, wizards moving out of the house?
Brooke Matherly 32:06
No actually, wizards staying home.
Christina Kann 32:08
I see I see.
In Europe, it's very common, if you're 20, 21, 22, to be living at home. In fact, it's kind of expected. So I think it's not odd really to be like, "I have a job. I'm stable. I have what many Americans would view as the impetus to move out, but I'm not going to because housing is hard to get and commuting is very difficult, I'm gonna save money, so I live at home with my parents."
Brooke Matherly 32:40
it's similar to the northeast of the US. A lot of my friends that I know that live in New Jersey and Long Island and New York, they live with their parents for longer because their parents are just like, "This makes more sense. You can't really actually afford to live on your own. Just live here for a little bit longer until you can save up enough money that you can get an apartment on your own." I don't know. It just struck me as particularly weird for Percy because he clearly hates being in this environment so much.
Christina Kann 33:10
Yeah. And also they live in fuckin Ottery St. Catchpole, which is not the place to live to be thriving as a young adult and moving your career ahead in the world.
Brooke Matherly 33:22
I think he would want to be around other like other wizards--
Christina Kann 33:27
Brooke Matherly 33:27
--in a more thriving environment so that he could network and rub elbows with people, you know what I mean?
Christina Kann 33:32
Yeah, it's true. So Ron and Percy fight, and Percy slams the door and Ron stomps up the stairs. And finally they make it all the way up to Ron's room at the top of the house. There's actually a really, really adorable illustration of it in my Jim Kay illustrated edition that I'm going to post on Instagram today, of Ron's little room. I love it so much. It's very orange, but the illustration makes it look kind of lovely, you know? And "Ron's old rat, Scabbers, was here no more." Okay, sure. We don't have time to go into that backstory.
Brooke Matherly 34:07
I have a real question, because there's a big debate in this moment. And I want to know from our listeners, and we'll put a poll up on the Twitter. Pigwidgeon as an owl name: cute or catastrophic?
Christina Kann 34:21
But also Pig!
Brooke Matherly 34:23
I like Pig as a nickname. I'm actually with Ron on this. I think Pig is a cuter nickname than Pigwidgeon is as a full name.
It also just sounds cool. "Here piggy, piggy, piggy, piggy, souieeeeee!"
Brooke Matherly 34:35
I don't think they sooie at their pigs there, do they?
You know, that's a great question.
Christina Kann 34:41
Definitely not at their Pigwidgeons.
If we have any English farmers listening, please comment.
Brooke Matherly 34:47
Stop threatening me with that knife.
I don't know what you're talking about. It's my magical wand. It's my it's my pointy death wand.
Brooke Matherly 34:53
Michael calls it his magical wand because when you're waving a knife at someone, they tend to do what you want them to.
It's pretty BA. But anyway, sooie.
Brooke Matherly 35:06
But Pigwidgeon. As a whole name, I think it's catastrophic. I think that's terrible.
Christina Kann 35:11
Okay. Well you can vote in the Twitter poll.
Brooke Matherly 35:14
Christina Kann 35:16
There's usually two beds in this room for no reason because Ron sleeps in it by himself -- but right now there's four beds because Charlie and Bill are sleeping in the twins' room so the twins are sleeping in with Harry and Ron, which is ... the injustice. So Charlie lives in Romania; where does Bill live?
Brooke Matherly 35:33
I think Bill has a cool bachelor pad.
Christina Kann 35:37
In like London or something.
Brooke Matherly 35:38
I'm gonna put this out strong: I think Bill has found a bachelor pad loft with an observatory.
Christina Kann 35:44
Brooke Matherly 35:45
I feel like that's his vibe.
Christina Kann 35:46
So specific. I like that. I'd fuck there! Anyway, so they just like sit around and chat a bit. Ron's talking about how Percy is so obsessed with his job and his boss, Mr. Crouch. Hmm? That'll never come up again.
Brooke Matherly 36:05
I don't know when this chapter takes place, but I'm shocked that it's not April because this is a little Easter egg hunt. There are little Easter eggs all over this chapter.
Brooke Matherly 36:20
Because we get the Mr. Crouch tease.
Christina Kann 36:22
Right. Bagman later.
Brooke Matherly 36:24
We're going to get to our girl Bertha Jorkins.
Christina Kann 36:28
Yeah, Bertha Jorkins!
Brooke Matherly 36:30
We also tease the suspicious secret event coming up later that we're all preparing for which is obviously the triwizard tournament.
Christina Kann 36:40
Yeah, definitely. This whole chapter is just setup, and it also feels like the whole last chapter was just setup, and last chapter we were talking about how the chapter before that was all setup. Should have been some condensing of chapters round this part of this book.
Brooke Matherly 36:53
Like a good flan, we are at this point fully set.
Christina Kann 36:59
And the next chapter is also kind of setup. And the chapter after THAT is when stuff starts to really happen, I think!
Brooke Matherly 37:05
It takes a while for everything to cure.
Christina Kann 37:08
It takes 130 pages to get to Hogwarts.
Brooke Matherly 37:13
We haven't had that kind of a wait since the first book.
Christina Kann 37:16
You're right. The first book there was a lot of buildup in the beginning.
Yeah, but because there was so much buildup in the first book, and because it was so frustrating, it's literally left the vibe that still sticks and to all subsequent books, where Harry's afraid of being stuck with the Dursleys. And even now we hate Dudley. So that buildup still pays dividends even now. Wait, so wait, I can't remember. Goblet of Fire -- by this point, this is the longest of all the novels, right?
Christina Kann 37:48
Yeah. Oh, for sure.
Yeah. Actually, I remember when this one came out, and I was like, "Holy thickness!"
Brooke Matherly 37:56
That's also what he says to me every night.
Christina Kann 38:00
I do like 'em thicc. Yeah, so once the yelling in the kitchens appears to subside from basically the attic where they are, they go back downstairs to help with dinner. Molly is angry cooking, which -- I've been there, girl.
Brooke Matherly 38:16
Dude, same. Angry cooking is second only to angry dish cleaning.
My mom used to angry cook, and she would make amazing dishes. So as kids, we would intentionally piss her off, just do outlandish things to make her cook. So I knew that if I got in trouble at school, and I came home, I was like, "Man, I'm gonna get my ass whooped. But we might have crab legs tonight!"
Brooke Matherly 38:45
Michael is an amalgamation of Fred and George.
Christina Kann 38:49
That is so funny. So because she's mad, she's being careless -- also been there -- so everything's going wrong -- also been there. The potatoes are shooting around the kitchen and everything's exploding and she's slamming stuff. It's a shit show. She's just in her own little world right now. She's having a livid, vivid monologue that just absolutely no one needs to -- she wants no one to engage with her. She's just on a roll.
Brooke Matherly 39:24
Clearly this is coming from a good place. She's just very, very worried about her kids. This is another big difference: Molly in the books isn't just like a vapid, overly supportive, quirky Mom, you know? In the movies, she comes off as "not like the other moms," basically.
Christina Kann 39:48
Brooke Matherly 39:48
Where she's just like there for them all the time. Like, "Whatever you want to do. Follow your dreams. I'm here to support you." And in the book, she's just like a real mom, where she's like, "I want you to do well. I don't want you guys to end up unemployed and sad. I would like to see you do something with your lives."
"I don't want you to be overweight, unemployed, and sad--"
Brooke Matherly 40:11
"--looking after seven kids alone in the countryside, and you never really did anything with your life."
And she just pops like seven Zolofts offs.
Christina Kann 40:21
Here's a question: she has rage. We see her rage at different times. And I think we can all agree that her family and her husband are a little afraid of her emotional reactions to things. Is she maybe like a little emotionally abusive, or manipulative?
Brooke Matherly 40:44
I don't think she's emotionally abusive or manipulative. I think she's just the glue that holds the family together, and everyone is aware of that. So if she needs to be catered to, then she needs to be catered to.
Christina Kann 40:59
Brooke Matherly 41:00
Because if Molly gets too frustrated and walks out, no one makes dinner, no one makes clothes, no one gets school supplies. The house doesn't get clean, everything falls the fuck apart.
Christina Kann 41:11
As a man who lives in constant fear of his spouse, I can sympathize a lot with their captiveness and how they're being held hostage by their mom, who is a violent, emotionally manipulative human being--
Christina Kann 41:28
I see your perspective.
--who has monopolized basic chores within the house and use it as punishment to withhold.
Brooke Matherly 41:38
Yeah, I'm punishing you by withholding your abilitiy to do chores.
Whoa! No, nobody was comparing this to our relationship. Why would you make that correlation jump? But now that we're here, let's talk about that.
Christina Kann 41:48
Mike, put the knife down.
Brooke Matherly 41:49
Yeah, you still got a knife in your hands!
Yes, and you have one at my heart.
Christina Kann 41:59
The boys run outside for safety, and Charlie and Bill are having a table fight. That's the cutest thing about them both, is that they're like "This is a fun idea."
Brooke Matherly 42:14
It's actual chaos. They don't stop until one of the tables breaks, and then they just magically glue it back together. I don't understand how Molly's so caught up with, what? A toffee that made someone's tongue grow real big? And then she does in the kitchen grab a fake one that turns into a mouse.
Christina Kann 42:33
Yes, that was probably very infuriating, bad timing.
Brooke Matherly 42:36
Yep, but meanwhile, her other two sons are fighting with her furniture outside. She's just like, "Oh, but that's Bill and Charlie."
Christina Kann 42:46
Once you've proven yourself and left the house, you get to just be whoever you want to be.
Brooke Matherly 42:51
You get free reign.
Christina Kann 42:56
Percy, however, screams at Charlie and Bill out of the window to keep it down.
Brooke Matherly 43:01
I love that he screams at them, and Bill, without skipping a beat, is like, "How's the cauldron bottoms coming on, buddy?" I love watching the Weasley kids interact with each other because they are just the most siblingy siblings to ever sibling.
Christina Kann 43:20
Yeah, and we've wondered aloud on this podcast a lot about the dynamic of the Bill-Charlie-Percy relationship before other children were born, you know? Because Percy does seem to not really fit in anywhere, but for a while it was just the three of them.
Brooke Matherly 43:39
There does seem to be a real divide in the family.
Christina Kann 43:43
The twins are like a hard wall.
Brooke Matherly 43:45
Yeah, because the twins are just so much.
Christina Kann 43:50
Yeah, it's amazing they have kids after the twins.
Brooke Matherly 43:54
Well, the twins are how much older than Ron? Like three years older than Ron?
Christina Kann 43:58
They're two years older.
Brooke Matherly 44:00
Gosh, that's late. I mean, I guess not. They would have been like one-ish when Molly got pregnant again. And like I could see, "Alright, they're one. They haven't really started developing outlandishly." They're not particularly mobile at that point. And then like by the time you have Ron, you're like, "Oh, no, what have I done?"
Christina Kann 44:23
And then you're like, "Please, please just give me a daughter. I'll do anything!" and you have that one last Hail Mary baby, and you get Ginny! Which in the movies is a burden, but in the books it's a great bounty.
Also, I'm just gonna say this: wizarding condoms aren't all they're made up to be. They still use goatskin.
Brooke Matherly 44:41
We've talked about this before on the podcast. What is wizarding birth control? Surely they have very effective forms. I refuse to believe anything otherwise.
Christina Kann 44:51
Potions! Just an easy potion. It tastes like Lacroix.
Yeah, they have seven flights of stairs in their house. That's what they have. I don't really think they're mixing the potions on Planned Parenthood in the wizarding world.
Brooke Matherly 45:15
Michael, Michael. Put the knife down.
Christina Kann 45:22
All right, I'm taking the reigns. Let's all sit down for a nice family dinner and be polite. Please take off your hat.
Brooke Matherly 45:29
This meal sounds delicious.
Christina Kann 45:31
Yeah, for sure.
Brooke Matherly 45:34
We get chicken and ham pie -- which, yum -- and then boiled potatoes -- which I'm assuming are seasoned to some point -- and then a nice salad. This is an ideal meal to me.
Christina Kann 45:46
And then dessert is... "They had their pudding, homemade strawberry ice cream." I know that that's your kryptonite, strawberries.
Brooke Matherly 45:55
I don't like strawberries.
Christina Kann 45:57
It still sounds delightful. Imagine it was a different kind of berry.
Brooke Matherly 45:59
Homemade raspberry ice cream, I could fux with. Blackberry for sure. I don't like strawberries. I find their flavor to be offputting. But I'm alone in that.
Christina Kann 46:09
It's your only character flaw.
Brooke Matherly 46:11
I am as alone and not liking strawberries as Haley is alone in not liking cheese. I accept that I'm the only person in the world.
One of the things I did like about this scene was the subtlety of having Paul Hollywood show up and give a handshake to Mrs. Weasley.
Christina Kann 46:29
Is the new season out yet, or have you guys only just been seeing all of the ads on social media like I have?
Brooke Matherly 46:35
I've just been seeing all the all of the ads.
Christina Kann 46:38
They posted on Instagram today themselves doing a parody of Achey Breaky Heart -- like, I can't. I can't with with that at all.
Brooke Matherly 46:50
Oh, dear lord.
Christina Kann 46:52
But that actually is exactly the vibe that's happening right now, Great British Bake Off. Definitely Fleur and Bill's wedding in the Weasley backyard in the last book with the big tent, you know?
Brooke Matherly 47:04
I really like the exchange about work that happens here between Percy and Mr. Weasley, because this is exactly how my father and I talk to each other about our jobs. My father and I are in different but related industries.
It's super exciting visiting her inlaws.
Brooke Matherly 47:21
My dad and I are in different but related industries, adjacent industries. And when we talk, we talk exactly like this, where I'm always really fiery, because I've just been in it less time. My dad very patiently is like, "You know, there's wisdom in a lot of people you'll meet, even if you don't like working with them." You can tell Mr. Weasley is proud of his boy, but he's also trying to impart a little bit of like--
Christina Kann 47:52
He's like, "Hey, chill out."
Brooke Matherly 47:54
Well, and it's also government, and anything in government is also politics. You can't just be like burning half the people in the Ministry and still expect to do well.
Christina Kann 48:06
That's a good point. Yeah, they talk about Ludo Bagman because Mr. Crouch doesn't like Bagman, but Mr. Weasley says mildly that he likes the dude. It just is so funny to me. Ludo Bagman got the Weasleys their tickets to the Quidditch World Cup, which is an excellent favor, if you ask me, because that sporting event is dope, and I don't even like sports.
Brooke Matherly 48:30
For the low low price of Mr. Weasley not investigating his brother, who definitely tampered with a Muggle object.
Have we talked about government bribery?
Brooke Matherly 48:42
That's literally what happened. Mr. Weasley straight up took a bribe to not pursue legal action against this dude's brother. That's how they're going to the Cup right now.
Christina Kann 48:58
That's so funny. I didn't even clock that. Yeah, that's pretty par for the course, I think.
What if Voldemort, in a different world, was kind of bad because his methods aren't good. But like he's also like, "Hey, I have a political like foundation, and I believe that the current government's corrupt, and I'm gonna end it." And you're kind of like, "Oh, okay, well I don't agree with how you're doing it, but he is kind of right." Hmm.
Brooke Matherly 49:28
Another thing that's like very government to me that gets mentioned in this, is they mentioned that Bertha is not good at any job. But instead of firing her, they've just been moving her department to department for years. It's just very government to be like, "Yeah, we can't fire them. Maybe they'll do better over here."
Christina Kann 49:48
I love her so much. I love just a dumb bitch who's so happy and trying her best. That's my favorite kind of person. Yeah, they're talking about Bertha. She's missing. Percy's like, "Mr. Crouch would never do this," and then he's like, "There's this big event coming up. You know the one, Father."
Brooke Matherly 50:12
The top secret big event thing that we're working on that no one knows about. But actual question: is the Triwizard Tournament a surprise? Doesn't it occur on a schedule?
Christina Kann 50:25
I think they had to take a break because people got hurt -- or died. I think in the last one people died. So they took like, a 100 year break or something.
Sorry, that's just the most wizarding thing to be like, "These kids died. Should we maybe import safety measures? No, let's just take a hundred-year break and forget about this."
Christina Kann 50:50
Well, maybe it was like a 15 year break. I don't know.
They're like, "We'll just forget about it and repeat the past. Sounds pretty good to me!"
Christina Kann 50:59
We've figured out a way for people to probably not die this time.
Brooke Matherly 51:02
They just wanted to hit a point where people are like, "Remember that fun tournament we used to do when we were in school? I can't remember where they stopped doing that."
Christina Kann 51:13
My question is why they would -- logistically, from a governmental, administrative standpoint -- why would you choose to do to host the Quidditch World Cup and host the Triwizard Tournament in the same year within a couple months of each other?
This is actually terribly interesting, and it was actually answered in some fanfiction. There is this contest that's held every year in Europe called the Eurovision, and you see, the wizarding English team won that year. I believe it's on Netflix.
Brooke Matherly 51:49
You mean Iceland? Don't disrespect Fire Saga. I love that movie. That movie got me through some dark times.
What if the wizarding world had their own version of Eurovision? And they're like, "Whoever wins Eurovision this year gets to host that tournament where the kids die?" Like fuck yeah.
Brooke Matherly 52:13
I mean, maybe that's the thing. Do they just like randomly select other schools every time?
It's only three schools, man.
Christina Kann 52:19
It is three schools.
Brooke Matherly 52:22
They go on to talk about the World Cup. And they're mentioning all of the teams that played in the, I suppose, runoffs or playoffs? And it's like, fully global. We get Ireland obvi, Bulgaria obvi, but we also get Peru, Luxenborg, Wales, Scotland, and Uganda.
Christina Kann 52:45
I thought we were talking about the Triwizard Tournament.
Brooke Matherly 52:49
Well, that's what I'm saying. Maybe the Triwizard Tournament just like bounces around the world with different sets of combinations of schools going on, Is it always the same three?
Christina Kann 52:57
I think so.
Yeah. I think it's supposed to be like kind of like--
Christina Kann 53:01
The European magical schools.
Yeah, well, like Harvard versus Yale kind of thing. These three schools have this ongoing rivalry and it's kind of known.
Brooke Matherly 53:11
And we let them kill each other recreationally?
Christina Kann 53:13
No, but that's the point is we think we figured out how they can probably not maybe kill each other.
Brooke Matherly 53:19
Probably no one will die.
We don't really know because we haven't held this tournament at 100 years, so we're not really sure, but fuck it. Let's do it.
Brooke Matherly 53:26
The Hogwarts promise: probably no one will die.
You're sending your kid, and along with the first letter you get is another owl with a whole book of just forms you have to sign.
Christina Kann 53:38
Just waivers upon waiver. The kid just gets this nice little letter, but the parents are running around with stacks of paper. And one of them, because it's wizard, they're like, "Hey, you've got to sign this with your blood. It's got to be under a full moon." You're like, "What? Why?" and they're like, "Your kid might die!"
Christina Kann 53:57
Bold of you to assume that anyone in the wizarding world would value actual paperwork. It's cute -- during this part of the chapter, we're just getting little snippets of conversation. It's a little bit tedious. We could be doing other things right now. But we get Mrs. Weasley arguing with Bill about his earring. "No one at the bank gives a damn how I dress as long as I bring home plenty of treasure," is his answer. I have a couple of questions. Is Bill a pirate? Is Bill bringing home treasure ethically? Is it possible for anyone who is a resident of Britain to bring home treasure ethically?
Brooke Matherly 54:33
I think there's probably a 0% chance that this is fully ethical. But if we were to take a potentially ethical spin to it, I think there is a case to be made that maybe he tracks down stolen items. You know what I mean?
Christina Kann 54:49
Like a spy.
Brooke Matherly 54:51
Yeah, basically. If Gringotts was making a cash transfer done in ye olden day style, where they put it in a suitcase that gets chained to someone's wrist right. And they're like, "They killed our messenger and they stole 2000 gold. Go find it." I could see that.
Christina Kann 55:09
Brooke Matherly 55:10
Galleons. There can be gold galleons. I could see it being like that kind of scenario where he tracks down--
Christina Kann 55:22
Let's say that that's what he's doing.
Brooke Matherly 55:25
Misappropriated, stolen, or otherwise -- I think people can report -- because they don't have a credit card, so if someone steals your shit, you can't just like turn it off and get the money credited back to you. I think Bill's the back end of that.
Christina Kann 55:38
Okay, all right. I like that interpretation. Also, he might be a pirate.
Brooke Matherly 55:43
Maybe pirate. I do like that this is the most mom conversation in the world. I -- and Tina, I know you've done the same on multiple occasions -- dyeing your hair funny colors gives you the exact same response from your parents. Where they're like, "Your hair is rainbow. How can anyone respect you? Did they stop paying you a salary the minute that you did this?"
Christina Kann 56:03
Brooke Matherly 56:04
And you're like, "Nope, believe it or not, I talked to the CEO like this, and he doesn't care."
Christina Kann 56:08
Right. I am in fact the same person I was before.
Brooke Matherly 56:11
Yep, shockingly, not a single person I've ever been on a job with has been like, "Dear God, you have a tattoo. Leave and never return."
Christina Kann 56:20
Right! Leave and never return.
Also, this is like the '90s, so it's kind of like wickedly Gen X.
Brooke Matherly 56:27
To be like, "I have a dragon earring."
Brooke Matherly 56:32
To be fair, he has a fang hearing. We don't know what the fang is from.
I always assumed it was a dragon.
Brooke Matherly 56:37
But it is -- Easter eggy chapter -- and what does Bill get bit by later?
Christina Kann 56:45
Brooke Matherly 56:47
Maybe it's a werewolf fang.
Christina Kann 56:48
Brooke Matherly 56:50
From the moment he enters this series, he's tagged as a beast inside.
Christina Kann 56:54
Oh, wow. They left their mark on him! Interesting. Okay.
Brooke Matherly 57:00
Um, I have one last question.
Christina Kann 57:02
Brooke Matherly 57:03
About their Quidditch conversation. How did they know? Are they reading about these in the paper? They don't have TVs; they don't have radios. Are they reading about these matches in the paper? Or are they attending them? They're all over the world.
Christina Kann 57:17
Do you remember how in Hello from the Magic Tavern, they have all the different ways that you can tune in to watch Mittens? Including -- isn't there one that's like slaughtering a cow and like watching in its blood?
Brooke Matherly 57:29
Slaughter a horse and watching in its blood, yep.
Christina Kann 57:34
In this case, I have no idea.
Brooke Matherly 57:36
I'm assuming it's just the paper but like--
Christina Kann 57:39
That's not very exciting.
Brooke Matherly 57:41
It's not. They're enthusiastically talking about like, "Oh, they edged them out in the last minute," or "Well, Krum's a decent player, but Ireland's got seven." How do you know? How many games have you seen of Bulgarian Quidditch? How are you to know any of this? How does Ron even keep up with the Chudley Cannons?
Christina Kann 58:04
Yeah, I don't know if he like -- I mean, it just seems so distant from how we receive news like this, that a kid would go to his mom or dad and be like, "Hey, did the Cannons win last night?" and then have the answer be enough. But like, these are country, old-fashioned kids.
Brooke Matherly 58:24
It's baffling to me because I just don't understand how you could be a devoted fan of a sport that you cannot see ever.
This is literally the most millennial conversation I've ever heard.
Christina Kann 58:38
Maybe maybe Arthur can get other free tickets to local games from work, but this is the World Cup so they bring Harry.
Yeah, he doesn't go to many games. That's what makes us special. But he follows the team, reads it in the newspaper, sees it, and talks to people, and they tell him. It's a very millennial mindset to be like, "If you can't see it, it doesn't exist. How doI know you went to Belize? It's not on your Instagram!"
Brooke Matherly 59:12
Even in the '20s, they listened to baseball games on the fucking radio. They don't even have that!
Christina Kann 59:16
How do you get emotionally engaged in something you can't actually experience?
Brooke Matherly 59:20
So that's why you go to the game.
Brooke Matherly 59:25
But these games are happening in Uganda and Peru. Right?
Okay. Okay. Hold on. We are reading a book about people who literally just transported through a fucking fireplace and you literally just asked, "How do they get to these places?"
Brooke Matherly 59:39
Does Floo powder work internationally?
Christina Kann 59:42
I think it would have to.
"How do the people on the broomies with the magical powers--?"
Brooke Matherly 59:47
It just seems like it would be too much.
"How did the school from -- Oh, they took their magical boat under the water and it just appeared?"
Christina Kann 59:55
Both perspectives are valid.
Brooke Matherly 59:57
Would have to dump a whole satchet of Floo powder to get all the way to Peru?
"How did that one school with the magical flying cart -- Oh that's right! They just flew there!"
Brooke Matherly 1:00:08
I am never going to be satisfied, even in this series, for an answer being "because magic."
Christina Kann 1:00:14
Okay, I'm with you. I'm with you. Ron asks Harry if he's heard from Sirius Black, and the answer is yes. And that's it. It's a very brief conversation.
Brooke Matherly 1:00:25
Christina Kann 1:00:27
Brooke Matherly 1:00:27
They're like, "About anything in particular?" and Harry's like, "Hmm, what have I learned in the past 3 books about telling people what's going on? Nothing? No, everything's fine."
Wouldn't it be crazy if it's like a movie and they asked that line in the movie and Harry says it, and then you just see his eyes stare off and you see like sounds in the background? And you're like, "Wait a second, there's a whole side quest here? and they're like, "Oh yeah, whole side quest. Whole adventure."
Brooke Matherly 1:00:53
Just horror imagery of nightmares of people being killed.
Yeah, like we murdered some people for a weekend.
Brooke Matherly 1:01:02
Harry's like, "I am not sure entirely how complicit I have been in a couple of murders at this point." Which is a lot for a 14 year old.
Christina Kann 1:01:11
That's why he's just like, "Yeah, yeah, Ron, I have."
Christina Kann 1:01:19
Mrs. Weasley finally sends everyone to bed and because they have to be up at the crack of dawn to get to the World Cup. She's going to spend the day getting their school supplies from Diagon Alley. She's honestly probably like really, really stoked to be able to just go shopping by herself. I would be if I were her.
Brooke Matherly 1:01:37
I'm also hoping that Harry, like, wizard Venmoed her enough money for this, because she surely does not have the cash to be also getting his school supplies, and Harry is very rich.
Christina Kann 1:01:49
Yeah, you're right about that.
Brooke Matherly 1:01:50
He should be paying them rent. He is wealthy enough to be paying them rent.
Christina Kann 1:01:54
Yeah. That's it gang. That's the end of the chapter. Is there anything that we failed to address that you just simply must discuss?
Brooke Matherly 1:02:03
If anything, we just failed to undress? And that was really a disappointment to me.
Christina Kann 1:02:08
Wizards invented international travel. They're also recklessly murdering children for their own bloodsport, and you know, don't ever pass up on a chance to have sex with two twins.
Brooke Matherly 1:02:26
Mike's lessons at knifepoint.
Which is another podcast you should tune into, or else!
Christina Kann 1:02:34
Well, that seems like a good segue as any directly into our plug portion of today's episode. I would love to start by plugging our Patreon! September's bonus episode for our patrons covered My Immortal, the very mysterious and goffick and legendary Harry Potter fanfiction and all of its lore. Special shoutout to Haley for running that one for us. Link is in the show notes. Please support us on Patreon to get more bonus episodes of that nature. Brooke, where can people find you on the internet?
Brooke Matherly 1:03:08
You can find me on Instagram @passion_for_parks. You can find me on Twitter @grumpybrooke. And this week, I would love to plug a book that I have been demanding everybody in my entire social circle read. It's called "Malice."
Christina Kann 1:03:24
Oh yeah! You're bringing it to me.
Brooke Matherly 1:03:25
I am. It's called "Malice" by Heather Walter. Part of the reason I'm so excited is because it's so rare that I just walk into a bookstore and I picked up a book based entirely on cover art. And I flipped open the inner jacket, and I read a couple sentences, and I was like, "Yeah, fuck it, I'll get it." And then what I proceeded to read was one of the most original, well thought out, delightful, sapphic fantasy novels. It is a retelling of Sleeping Beauty. It is fucking amazing. It's one of two, but the second book is already written and good to go and coming out in May of next year. So this is not a thing where we have to worry about reading it or getting invested in it. And it's just so good. It is a great book. Everyone should read it. I make no hesitation there: everyone should read it. It is very, very good, and I loved every minute of it, and you should too. "Malice" by Heather Walter.
Christina Kann 1:04:22
Oh my god, I'm so freakin excited.
Christina Kann 1:04:27
Mike, where can people find you on the internet?
They can find me on the Internet at 208-672-2222--
Christina Kann 1:04:38
I thought maybe you'd plug your Instagram or something.
Oh, I thought you needed my local IP address! My bad. You asked me where I was on the internet! You can find me on Instagram @weirdcarsrva. You can also find me on TikTok @magicmikedancedancedance.
Brooke Matherly 1:04:47
You cannot find him @magicmikedancedancedance.
Christina Kann 1:04:59
But yeah, sadly I am not as well versed as by amazing, intelligent, beautiful wife, so I do not have any books to recommend.
Brooke Matherly 1:05:09
Plug that poem that you've been digging.
Oh, there was a really good Leonard Cohen poem called "Kanye West Is Not Picasso." It's freakin amazing. It's a really short poem. So if you got two minutes, just literally type on Google "Kanye West Is Not Picasso."
Christina Kann 1:05:32
Hell yeah. I've been your host, Christina. You can follow me on Instagram @christinathekann, you can follow me on Twitter @christina_kann, and you can follow me on TikTok @sproutsprivatestash. This week I have to recommend to you -- What is it? What did I decide? I forgot already. Oh! Bob's Burgers! I'm plugging it because the new season started last week, last Sunday, actually. And I fucking love that show. Y'all know I love that show. I have plugged it before. I just wanted to let anyone who doesn't know that there's a new season know that there's a new season. I don't know anything. I haven't watched it yet. Podcasts get recorded ahead of time. Well, that's that. Brooke, Mike, thank you so much for joining me on this fine, fine evening.
Brooke Matherly 1:06:14
Absolutely. We're always happy to get to hang out with each other in someone else's presence. We're the masterful couple of making other people third wheel for us.
Christina Kann 1:06:25
I love that.
Brooke Matherly 1:06:26
You're actually probably one of the few people that has enough of a sense of self and strong personality that you can't be made a third wheel.
You are. You're the unicycle.
Brooke Matherly 1:06:37
And we're just like clinging to the back of it.
I don't know what the fuck we are. I don't know what else goes on a unicycle.
Brooke Matherly 1:06:43
We're on a trick bike. You're actually driving it. I'm sitting on the handlebars, and Mike's on the pegs on the back.
And we're totes about to go play N64 at Eric's house right now and I think he has some weed from his older brother.
Christina Kann 1:06:58
Guys, how am I supposed to naturally wrap it up from here?
Brooke Matherly 1:07:03
Just go for it. Plunge straight in.
Christina Kann 1:07:03
I gotta go finish reading "Tricky Candy for Tricky Boys" before this book starts disciplining me. Bye!
Brooke Matherly 1:07:11
Christina Kann 1:07:11
Mike, say bye.
Christina Kann 1:07:18
The Restricted Section is thrilled to be a member of the Movie Night Crew Podcast Network, which features amazing other podcasts, such as My Cabbages: an Avatar Podcast. My cabbages is an avatar the last airbender podcast that was started by two lovable nerds during a global pandemic to stave off their inevitable existential crisis.
Christina Kann 1:08:55
The Restricted Section was created by me, Christina Kann, based on the book series by JK Rowling. All music by Ryan Kann. Logo by Michael Hardison. Support us on patreon.com/restrictedsection. For as little as $1 a month, you can gain access to our Discord community server, which is a really happy place to be, and there are other rewards as well, such as bonus episodes and Zoom happy hour hangouts. Be sure to follow us on Instagram @restrictedsectionpod, on Twitter @restrictedpod, and on Facebook @restrictedsectionpod. Also feel free to shoot us an email at firstname.lastname@example.org to share your thoughts, feelings, complaints, conspiracy theories, or even lavish praise.
Brooke Matherly 1:09:43
Did you just get a knife to scratch your back with?
Brooke Matherly 1:09:47
You got to show her that night. It's a large knife.
Mary Clay Watt, Christina Kann, actual ghost probably, Jason Hilton
Christina Kann 00:02
"Harry wheeled around. Dudley was no longer standing behind his parents. He was kneeling beside the coffee table, and he was gagging and sputtering on a foot-long, purple, slimy thing that was protruding from his mouth. One bewildered second later, Harry realized that the footlong thing was Dudley's tongue, and that a brightly colored toffee wrapper lay on the floor before him." Okay, I'll read more. "Aunt Petunia hurled herself onto the ground beside Dudley, seized the end of his swollen tongue, and attempted to wrench it out of his mouth. Unsurprisingly, Dudley yelled and sputtered worse than ever, trying to fight her off. Uncle Vernon was bellowing and waving his arms around, and Mr. Weasley had to shout to make himself heard." So that's what we're doing in this chapter.
Christina Kann 01:10
What's up, Pott-heads? Welcome to The Restricted Section, a show in which a bunch of nerds with potty mouths reread the Harry Potter series for the umpteenth time and discuss the way that this story and its themes have stayed with the generation into adulthood. Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't done the reading, don't worry, we did it for you. Here's what we're talking about this week:
Christina Kann 01:30
Chapter Four: Back to the Burrow. Harry spends a very tense day waiting for the Weasleys to come pick him up at the Dursleys'. Uncle Vernon is wearing his best suit for the occasion in a show of power. But unfortunately, the Weasleys arrive via fireplace, and also very unfortunately, the Dursleys' fireplace is boarded up in favor of an electric fire. So the visit starts poorly with Arthur Weasley blasting the Dursleys' fireplace apart, and it does actually in fact get worse from there. On their way out, Fred drops a bunch of candy. Whoopsie! Oh wow, what a silly accident. Well, of course, dieting Dudley eats one candy that was accidentally left behind, and it causes his tongue to grow uncontrollably. So Uncle Vernon starts chucking china pieces at Arthur, and Arthur makes Harry leave via Floo Powder while he fixes everything. Not all heroes wear capes; some wear "long robes in varying states of shabbiness."
Christina Kann 02:40
Welcome to The Restricted Section, where we WILL explode your living room! I am delighted to be joined today by my boisterous friend, Mary Clay! Say hello to the listeners, Mary Clay.
Mary Clay Watt 02:51
Christina Kann 02:53
I'm so glad you're back after summer vacation.
Mary Clay Watt 02:56
I know! I was just I was texting you earlier this week, and I was telling Jason when you were running around your house resetting your Wi Fi, that it feels like it's been a while. I couldn't remember what I was last on for. Obviously it was Prisoner of Azkaban, which comes right before this book, Goblet of Fire.
Christina Kann 03:15
Mary Clay Watt 03:16
So it's good to be back talking about good old HP.
Christina Kann 03:22
The last episode you were on was the movie episode with Ethan and Haley, and that does feel like it was truly so long ago.
Mary Clay Watt 03:31
Well, honestly, when we recorded that episode, it very well could have been when I was still at my old job. I know I was at my old house. It was probably before we traveled -- we did all this traveling for my brother's wedding. I lived with my parents for two weeks when I was in between leases. And then moving in was a whole process because we had an issue with our gas stove leaking gas. And so it's truly like a lifetime has passed in terms of what I've experienced since I was last on.
Christina Kann 04:13
You've come so far and tried so hard. And in the end, it definitely mattered. And our special guest today -- you might have heard of him -- is Jason Hilton, editor of the Movie Night Crew! Say hello to the listeners, Jason.
Jason Hilton 04:32
Hello to the listeners, Jason.
Mary Clay Watt 04:34
I almost did that joke, but I couldn't remember what Christina said exactly.
Christina Kann 04:44
You may remember Jason from his past episodes. He was on for Chamber of Secrets, Chapter 17: The Heir of Slytherin, and Prisoner of Azkaban, Chapter Seven: The Boggart in the Wardrobe, so pretty good chapters, if I do say myself.
Mary Clay Watt 05:00
Jason Hilton 05:01
Well, my first chapter was the very first chapter of Chamber of Secrets. So...
Christina Kann 05:07
Jason Hilton 05:08
Christina Kann 05:09
Dang, I didn't even look. I scrolled back and I'm sure I was like, "Oh, there's this Chamber of Secrets one and that's all that he did." I didn't remember you did two.
Jason Hilton 05:19
I am hurt. That was a special recording.
Christina Kann 05:23
You're right. I do remember, though, cuz that was incredibly boring and terrible. *scathingly* Harry Potter was a very special boy.
Jason Hilton 05:31
Yeah, and I was way more nervous.
Christina Kann 05:34
Well, I hope you're comfortable. In fact, let's all get comfortable in the Dursleys' living room.
Jason Hilton 05:42
While we can.
Christina Kann 05:44
While we can. Today, we're talking about Chapter Four of Goblet of Fire, Back to the Burrow. But like, wow, misnomer, cuz we don't see the Burrow in this chapter.
Mary Clay Watt 05:54
I know, I was very disappointed.
Jason Hilton 05:56
Me too. Like, exactly. I was actually pretty let down.
Christina Kann 06:00
Okay, but it's still a pretty fun chapter, at least compared to the past two chapters.
Mary Clay Watt 06:05
It is very fun, but I just don't understand why she wouldn't have combined either the previous chapter and this chapter, or this chapter and the next chapter, you know?
Jason Hilton 06:16
Yeah, you like blink in this chapter is over, so it seems weird to even separate them.
Mary Clay Watt 06:21
It is still very fun. But I said before we officially started the episode that I kept reading on to the next chapter because it was so funny. I had a vague memory. I was like, "Don't Bill and Charlie, like, smash tables together like with their wands?" And I was like, "Did that actually happen?" But we're not here to talk about that. We're here to talk about Harry just sitting in the hallway.
Jason Hilton 06:52
Christina Kann 06:53
Okay, be grateful for what you get. Yes, he packs. Yeah, to go to the Weasleys'. The Dursleys are pretty tense about the wizards that are coming to their house. Frankly, I'm impressed that they're even bearing this anxiety compared to how they usually act about "your kind."
Mary Clay Watt 07:14
I can't believe they didn't just be like, "Harry, you have to go meet them somewhere else at a drop off point. We're not allowing them into our house."
Christina Kann 07:23
Jason Hilton 07:25
They didn't even know how they were going to show up. So that probably wouldn't even have worked
Mary Clay Watt 07:28
Christina Kann 07:29
Yeah, that's true. I mean, unless there's a public location with a fireplace, which does exist, but it would have to be like a bougie winery or something. Maybe not in the UK. There's actually probably a lot more fireplaces in the UK. Uncle Vernon says that they better dress normally. Vernon, for his part, is wearing his very best suit, which is so ridiculous. Even if Mr. Weasley was a Muggle, it's still a ridiculous outfit to wear to sit in your living room.
Mary Clay Watt 08:02
I loved the note that it wasn't because he wanted to look, you know, put together for his guests; it was that he wanted to show off how much money he has or how nice his clothes are or something.
Jason Hilton 08:16
Yeah. Which is a pretty big sting for the Weasleys.
Mary Clay Watt 08:21
They don't wear Muggle clothes, so Vernon wearing an impressive, nice, fancy suit isn't something that's going to impress them. They're just gonna be like, "Yeah, it's muggle clothes. I guess it looks nice. Like, congratulations." It's like me when people tell me basically anything about what their car is. I'm like, "Cool!"
Christina Kann 08:43
Harry doubts that they're gonna dress in a way that Uncle Vernon likes because the Weasleys parents, they often wear long robes. I feel like wearing long robes every day would be extremely obnoxious. What do you guys think?
Jason Hilton 08:58
Well, it drags on the ground all the time. You even notice that in the movies, where they have like soot always on the bottom of their wizarding robes. It would seem kind of inconvenient for me. I don't go around wearing like a trench coat all the time. Well, for multiple reasons.
Mary Clay Watt 09:16
I would love the feeling of just always having a cape on. I know our dear friend admin Edna mode says "No capes!" I would just love the feeling of like anywhere I walk. It's like whoosh!
Jason Hilton 09:27
Friend of the podcast Edna Mode.
Mary Clay Watt 09:29
Yes, she listens.
Jason Hilton 09:31
I like to imagine Arthur Weasley coming in with the most stereotypical wizarding outfit possible, just by chance, so he's got the big, pointy Merlin hat and a purple cloak with yellow stars and moons all over it. Like, "Hello!" And he's just trying to be nice, but greatly offending.
Christina Kann 09:50
Oh my God, we have that exact outfit. We bought our Dumbledore outfit; you just described it like exactly. I think that I would be okay wearing long robes every day at Hogwarts, where everything's cold and made out of stone, you know?
Christina Kann 10:08
It's not very dirty. It's not muddy, you know? It's just these big stone corridors with nothing to catch you. If I had a robe, I would get it caught on everything, and also I'm realizing now that the kittens would just love that thing.
Mary Clay Watt 10:08
Mary Clay Watt 10:24
Yo, you know when you're going about your day and then, absolute day-ruiner, you're wearing a cardigan and the pocket gets caught in a doorknob? Is this only a me experience?
Christina Kann 10:36
Jason Hilton 10:39
No, that's happened to me with belt loops.
Mary Clay Watt 10:41
Okay, or a similar thing: you have you have a jacket on, you have a purse, you have anything on your body, and you walk past a door, and it catches on the doorknob.
Christina Kann 10:51
It's usually my purse.
Mary Clay Watt 10:52
You just imagine how often that would happen with your robe?
Jason Hilton 10:55
I'm just concerned with how much fire is in Hogwarts.
Christina Kann 10:59
Oh, that's true.
Jason Hilton 11:02
Oh yeah, Snape gets his robes on fire, right?
Mary Clay Watt 11:06
Yeah, but that's because a student did that to him.
Christina Kann 11:10
Yeah, someone set him on fire. That's different from just catching on fire.
Mary Clay Watt 11:16
I would have to have a summer robe.
Jason Hilton 11:18
It's really easy for children to set your clothes on fire. That's my only thing. That's why I wouldn't want to wear one.
Christina Kann 11:25
Yeah, Mary Clay, I suppose a summer robe would consist of like -- oh my god! At the Renaissance Fair, Lelia bought this capelet. It's like Little Red Riding Hood and it only covers her shoulders and it's adorable.
Mary Clay Watt 11:41
I'm imagining a sheer robe that's mostly just an overlay. You know?
Christina Kann 11:52
Mary Clay Watt 11:53
That maybe some floral designs on it or something for the summer. That would have to be my summer robe, since it's, you know, always 90 degrees where we live.
Christina Kann 12:06
Jason Hilton 12:07
Not in jolly old England.
Christina Kann 12:10
Okay, and then so Dudley is acting generally afraid because the last time that he met a wizard, he got a pig tail out of it. Well, the text calls him a full-grown wizard, I think, but it was Hagrid. I would argue that he's not a full-grown wizard. He doesn't have wizard training.
Mary Clay Watt 12:31
I think it means he is a wizard who is full grown. Like he's an adult.
Jason Hilton 12:37
Mary Clay Watt 12:39
Rather than like a fully trained wizard.
Jason Hilton 12:41
He may be a child on the inside, but he is an adult on the outside.
Christina Kann 12:45
And I suppose Dudley wouldn't know the difference. He was probably very threatened by that man at the time.
Mary Clay Watt 12:51
Yeah, but of course, it has to refer to that as a distant event, because if you say, "The last time Dudley was with a wizard, Hagrid gave him a tail," and then JK Rowling would have to be like, "Hagrid is the gatekeeper at Hogwarts." How she'll pepper in those details. "Yes, we know. It's book four. We know."
Jason Hilton 13:17
I kind of appreciated those sometimes because there was such a big gap between when the books came out. What was it, like every couple of years? I don't remember.
Mary Clay Watt 13:26
Christina Kann 13:26
Yeah, it was definitely a couple of years between them.
Jason Hilton 13:30
Christina Kann 13:30
Not many though, honestly. Pretty impressive writing pace, and George RR Martin could stand to take a leaf out of HER?? book. Reading these books this time around, I feel so bad for Dudley, honestly. He never stood a chance as a human being or a character. The text just absolutely despises him in a way that children should not be despised.
Jason Hilton 13:57
Although him constantly holding his butt this entire chapter was pretty funny. That was a funny detail that she kept bringing up.
Christina Kann 14:04
I think it's sad. He's like, absolutely terrified.
Mary Clay Watt 14:07
Yeah. Also it mentioned that they had to take him to a private hospital for the tail to be removed.
Christina Kann 14:14
Mary Clay Watt 14:15
So that required surgery. He was in physical pain, probably, because of what happened.
Jason Hilton 14:22
Probably couldn't sit down for a while
Christina Kann 14:24
Yes, that's what I was about to say! It's his favorite thing to do! Oh my gosh. We talked about this a lot in the last chapter, so we won't harp on it here, but the really rude fat shaming of Dudley continues through this chapter. He can't just walk out of a room, he has to waddle, you know? Yeah. And so the pig thing is just, I think it's just -- they're laying it on too heavy. In this book, he hasn't done a damn thing.
Jason Hilton 14:53
That adjective "porky" makes a return. For sure.
Christina Kann 14:57
God damn, remember that one pilot from Star Wars named Porkins?
Jason Hilton 15:03
Oh yeah, for sure. He's my favorite character.
Christina Kann 15:08
He's my favorite, too. It's a totally different situation. But--
Jason Hilton 15:11
I heard a funny story about that, where the actor was mildly offended at that because he was overweight. And he's like, "Are you calling me Porkins because I'm fat?" But apparently George Lucas was like, "Oh, no, you've got this whole backstory. And this is why Porkins is your name," or something like tha, just to make him feel better.
Christina Kann 15:28
Jason Hilton 15:28
Christina Kann 15:29
Putting in the legwork. "Check out this worldbuilding. I'ma explain why the fat guy's named Porkins." So, lunch is very tense and silent.
Mary Clay Watt 15:42
Christina Kann 15:42
Mary Clay, did you get the bug?
Mary Clay Watt 15:44
Can you see it flying around?
Christina Kann 15:47
No, I can't.
Mary Clay Watt 15:48
There is a fly. First of all, there's a gnat and a fly in my room. And the fly, I think, has been in our apartment. Like I think it needs to pay rent at this point. Anyway, continue.
Jason Hilton 16:05
No, I want to hear more about the bugs!
Christina Kann 16:07
I spend a lot of time watching other creatures catch bugs because my cats love catching bugs, and there's so many in our house.
Mary Clay Watt 16:15
Send them here! *SLAP* Oh my god. Oh, no. No, I slowed it down, though.
Christina Kann 16:19
Dude, you can have a kitten if you want.
Mary Clay Watt 16:22
I'm slowing down, I'm slowing it down. Okay,
Jason Hilton 16:24
Gus will do that. He'll just grab a fly and coldly eat it. And I'm like, "Ah, God, this is nature in my house."
Mary Clay Watt 16:33
My favorite videos from the summer have been pet owners being like, "Spit it out, spit it out now!" and they have a giant cicada in their mouth. And it's just a dog and their mouth is closed and then you just hear like the chirping but it sounds muffled.
Christina Kann 16:53
So lunch is very tense and silent. I think it's silent, completely silent, except for that Vernon asks if the Weasleys will be driving. And Harry realizes -- sweet, stupid little Harry realizes -- that he has absolutely no fucking idea how they're getting there.
Mary Clay Watt 17:08
Also, I love how as the books go on, and like I said earlier, at this point, she doesn't have the time to go in and every time they mention something crazy, explain exactly what happened. So she'll just pass by it really quickly. And so it mentions that their Ford Anglia is currently driving around the Forbidden Forest at Hogwarts. So it's very funny as the books go on, and like you have these opening chapters reintroducing you to the world and people and characters and objects and stuff. All of these very crazy, out-of-context things that are just adding to the list.
Jason Hilton 17:54
Do they even like attempt recap chapters once book seven comes around? I haven't read it in a long time.
Mary Clay Watt 18:00
I can't remember. I don't know. We'll find out in three years.
Christina Kann 18:03
I think they kind of stop in Order of the Phoenix. But Mary Clay, there is now suddenly a fly zooming around my office. And I think you summoned it -- or sent it.
Mary Clay Watt 18:18
I think I did kill the fly because I can see it lying on my floor. So maybe his spirit, his ghost, is over there.
Christina Kann 18:27
My God. I don't know how to segue from ghost fly into Harry sitting around.
Mary Clay Watt 18:34
Just go immediately into whatever you we're going to talk about and just cut all of this out and put it into Patreon content.
Christina Kann 18:41
A Patreon episode of just Mary Clay talking about the fly! Well, we need we need to do something while we're just waiting around for the Weasleys to show up. Harry's just sitting around. He's not even reading. They're just sitting.
Mary Clay Watt 19:01
They're twiddling their thumbs, yeah.
Jason Hilton 19:04
Their very, very bulbous thumbs.
Mary Clay Watt 19:06
Oh, also want to point out that their lunch is cottage cheese and shredded celery.
Christina Kann 19:13
God damn, that sounds so terrible.
Jason Hilton 19:16
That's such a '90s diet.
Christina Kann 19:18
It is a very '90s diet. I bet my mom had that for lunch more than a couple times.
Jason Hilton 19:23
Yeah, I'm sure that was like a miracle recipe back then. It's like, "Oh, if you just get into cottage cheese, you're good. You'll never have to eat cheese again." And then of course, it was a dirty, dirty lie. Just like with kale. It's like "You'll never want spinach or lettuce again!" And like you know, I do.
Mary Clay Watt 19:36
I don't want spinach or lettuce to begin with.
Christina Kann 19:39
Aw. I love lettuce. Um, that's not relevant, so... Okay, so it's five o'clock. What time are the Weasleys supposed to get here?
Mary Clay Watt 19:50
Five o'clock. It's very similar to how Jason and I rolled up to this recording.
Christina Kann 20:01
Mary Clay Watt 20:03
That was a self-roast.
Christina Kann 20:04
So they're just waiting in utter agony. They're all just so tense. But Harry never doubts for a second that the Weasleys are coming to get him.
Jason Hilton 20:15
Yeah, that's nice, but I don't understand -- when you have teleportation, how is being a late even an issue ever?
Mary Clay Watt 20:23
Well, they still have to get to the fireplace, you know? When you have a family of -- and Bill and Charlie are there, too, at this point. Spoiler alert for the next chapter. I didn't read ahead, what? Even though I admitted it at the beginning of this episode, I think. I'm sure the Burrow's crazy, you know. Fred and George are probably running around their room being like, "Oh, you know, it would be really funny? Get some of the toffees. Let's test them out on Dudley," and they're planning that out. Ron's upstairs maybe straightening his room, and Arthur's downstairs, like, "Come on, boys. We have to go!" and then Molly's like, "Well, while you're standing here waiting for them, you might as well help me cook dinner." So I can see how the Weasleys being a very large, rambunctious family, it takes a while to get them all, you know, in one place. Even if that place is in front of their own fireplace.
Jason Hilton 21:20
That is something I like to think about: if teleportation was like possible, I mean, I feel like people would still be late because you would still be procrastinating. You would be procrastinating to the very last second or something.
Christina Kann 21:35
Yeah, my beloved husband Sean has ADHD, and he would be, for sure, that person who cannot get there on time with teleportation.
Jason Hilton 21:45
I love the tone of your voice when you say "beloved husband."
Christina Kann 21:50
I love him, but he literally sometimes just literally cannot make himself get it together and get out the door wall. It's always when we're going on vacation and the pressure's on and I'm like, "People are waiting on us." And he's like, "Wait, I'm resetting the router."
Mary Clay Watt 22:08
Oh, I thought you meant you were going to right now to reset the router.
Christina Kann 22:11
No, that's always why he takes so long.
Mary Clay Watt 22:16
Also, consider, for people who have done remote work at all in the last year: Are you sitting at your computer exactly at 10am as the Zoom meeting rolls around? Or are you still on the toilet, scrolling TikTok being like, "Oh, shoot the meeting!"
Jason Hilton 22:39
In general, that's why I can't get into TikTok. I'm refusing myself TikTok because I know I'll get sucked into that world.
Mary Clay Watt 22:47
Jason Hilton 22:47
I feel like it'll ruin my life.
Mary Clay Watt 22:49
I have a problem.
Christina Kann 22:50
I've told your wife several times before that I think the two of you could have a very lucrative TikTok, and I'm happy to talk about that more at a later time.
Jason Hilton 22:59
Oh no. That's I'm fine.
Christina Kann 23:01
Your funny little songs.
Jason Hilton 23:03
Oh, true. Yeah.
Christina Kann 23:05
Finally, there's a scream. Uncle Vernon screams. There's a noise coming from inside the board-up fireplace.
Mary Clay Watt 23:13
The call is coming from inside the house.
Jason Hilton 23:15
Inside the fireplace.
Christina Kann 23:18
Dudley immediately peaces the fuck out. He's like, "I'm just already done." Why is he even here? Go to your room.
Mary Clay Watt 23:24
I know. I mean, that's always what I did as a kid and as an adult, is just go up to my room whenever people I don't know who I don't want to interact with come over. You just go to your room and close the door.
Jason Hilton 23:36
It's that suburbanite thing where like, everyone has to be there to greet them. Or maybe it's just classic English politeness.
Christina Kann 23:44
Dude, it's like the Von Trapp family. Line up. Parade out. Let me show all my friends what? I've made children.
Jason Hilton 23:51
Can you imagine if there were seven Dursley kids?
Christina Kann 23:54
No. They wouldn't be the same at all. Because part of that is that Dudley is like, inherently this way because he's the only, most precious child.
Mary Clay Watt 24:05
Yeah, if they had seven children, they would for sure pick a favorite. And then the favorite would know that they're the favorite, you know?
Jason Hilton 24:13
Yeah. I mean, it's always the first kid.
Christina Kann 24:15
Um, it is not always the first kid. Let me tell you, me and my little brother go back and forth.
Jason Hilton 24:21
Your parents go back and forth over which one they like more?
Christina Kann 24:24
But we always know which one it is.
Mary Clay Watt 24:26
I tell you what, as the third child in my family: The favorite is never -- it's been the first child a lot. It's been the second child a lot. It's never really been the third child.
Jason Hilton 24:37
I know, there's there's so few pictures of me as a baby because I was the third kid.
Christina Kann 24:42
Okay, in my family, the third child was beloved, but that's because he's an actual genius.
Mary Clay Watt 24:47
I think there are two spectrums for third child in families. There is one end where the third child -- or the youngest or whatever -- is -- I say "spoiled" in the sense that like they're given almost everything that they want. The rules are relaxed for them. Things are easier for them because there's always attentionon them. Or they're just pushed to the side and forgotten because there's all this other stuff happening already. When you come into the world, it's like, "That's great. But I also have the six year old and this three year old and now I have a baby. You, at least, can't move. So I'm going to put you in the swing," which my mom referred to as the Neglect-o-matic.
Christina Kann 25:38
Work smart, not hard, Mom!
Mary Clay Watt 25:40
In order, you know, to wrangle the other children. So I was on the other end of the third child spectrum where it's like, brother's off at band camp, sister's off at swim team, and you have your Gameboy to sit in the bleachers and watch.
Jason Hilton 25:55
And you can be quiet.
Mary Clay Watt 25:58
And you can sit there and enjoy your book or your Gameboy or whatever it is.
Christina Kann 26:02
My youngest brother, Ryan, wrote the theme song for this podcast, and if that isn't just the pinnacle of success, I don't know what is. Fred, George, and Mr. Weasley roll up into the blocked-off fireplace. Basically, they're coming in hot literally because there's a fire. But I guess the fire is not flammable. I assume it's blocked off with cardboard, right? No, yeah. No, not cardboard, wood. Plywood!
Mary Clay Watt 26:31
What I think would have been more fun, is if the reason the fireplace was blocked up was because Vernon blocked it up when -- actually, I don't know if that's a movie detail or if they did that in the book as well. In the first book, with the letters coming, if he boarded the fireplace up when the letters came and then was just too lazy to take them down at some point, you know.
Jason Hilton 26:57
I'll just get an electric one.
Mary Clay Watt 27:00
I would have appreciated that detail of like, "but the fireplace was boarded up because Vernon tried to stop Harry's school letters from arriving."
Jason Hilton 27:09
That's a Marvel-level continuity thing, so I could see that.
Christina Kann 27:11
Yeah. Before I remembered the letters thing, what I was thinking is that maybe when Lily died, someone took the Floo Network to their house to tell them that that had happened, and surprised them. And they boarded it up so no more wizards could get through.
Mary Clay Watt 27:29
I like that, I like that. I think the real answer, though, is just that like in -- quote unquote -- in the modern times of 1994, they have this electric fireplace that's a lot less effort for maintaining that they use instead. And I think that's just like, "Oh, this is this new gadget. It shows our wealth, it shows that we are with the times. It's something that we don't have to fuss about. And we can just turn it on and be warm and turn it off again."
Christina Kann 28:07
I'm grumpy because Sean and I have an ongoing fight about what kind of firepit we should have in the backyard. And in the end, he bought me my regular wood burning fire pit, but he always complains that it's not gas powered. I like the smell of fire.
Jason Hilton 28:24
Not when it's like blowing directly on me.
Mary Clay Watt 28:26
That's nice until -- you know what, Christina? I was with you until I thought about the actual situation of sitting around a fire and then there's always that one person the smoke is always blowing in, you know?
Christina Kann 28:42
Pkay, but I have a couch back there now. Can I interest you in a couch? Last time you were here, there wasn't a couch.
Jason Hilton 28:47
Can I interest you in a smokeless couch?
Mary Clay Watt 28:51
If I'm sitting on the couch, the smoke is still gonna blow at me when I'm on the couch.
Christina Kann 28:55
I'll protect you. So Harry goes to speak to Mr. Weasley--
Mary Clay Watt 29:00
The fly! The fly was not dead. It got back up.
Jason Hilton 29:04
It was pretending!
Mary Clay Watt 29:05
It got back up and flew away. Oh my god. It was literally lying on the floor. And I saw it go by I was like, "Are you kidding me? There's another goddamn fly."
Jason Hilton 29:12
I would recognize that fly anywhere.
Mary Clay Watt 29:14
The thrilling saga continues.
Christina Kann 29:17
That happens a lot in my house because the kittens don't like to eat the flies. They just like to take them down. So they'll bring down a fly and carry it around, and I think it gets all wet with spit, and then like three hours later it dries off and can fly away. They don't kill these flies. Cats are insane. So Harry's like, "Mr. Weasley, it's boarded up," and Mr. Weasley's like, "What the fuck?" But he's excited that there's an "eclectic" fireplace. And then Ron shows up. Have you ever seen a fireplace that all of these people could fit in at the same time?
Jason Hilton 30:02
Mary Clay Watt 30:03
I guess they're up in the chimney.
Jason Hilton 30:04
Mary Clay Watt 30:04
That's what I have imagined is that like they're stacked on top of each other.
Jason Hilton 30:09
The logistics of everything was confusing me. I was like "That's the only way."
Christina Kann 30:13
*dying laughing* STACKED ON TOP OF EACH OTHER UP THE CHIMNEY!
Mary Clay Watt 30:19
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess that's the only thing I can think of.
Jason Hilton 30:24
Wait, why did so many people need to come?
Mary Clay Watt 30:26
Yeah, that's what I don't get. Maybe, I would say Ron could come because it's his friend, but if you want to make the matter simpler, just have Arthur Apparate in, and then Harry can just hold on to his arm and then Apparate out, but maybe JK Rowling hadn't invented that concept yet. I love this moment when Ron pops in and says, "What are we doing here? Has something gone wrong?" "Oh no, Ron," said Fred's voice very sarcastically. "No, this is exactly where we wanted to end up." "Yeah, we're having the time of our lives here," said George.
Christina Kann 31:05
I love them so much. So Mr. Weasley finally just straight-up blasts the fireplace open. And the Weasleys all fall out.
Mary Clay Watt 31:16
Imagine like a slide, I guess, because they're all stacked on top of each other.
Christina Kann 31:22
And then Mr. Weasley tries to go politely introduce himself.
Jason Hilton 31:26
Yeah, I love his very bold attempts to try to win him over with kindness or politeness. It's like, "Hello. I just destroyed your living room. How's it going?"
Mary Clay Watt 31:39
Oh, it would be so pissed.
Jason Hilton 31:40
I know. I'm kind of with the Dursleys on this one. 100%
Mary Clay Watt 31:43
Christina Kann 31:44
Okay, but -- but to Mr. Weasley, this is something that can be fixed with magic in like 10 seconds, you know?
Mary Clay Watt 31:51
Jason Hilton 31:52
Yeah, he better.
Christina Kann 31:53
He has no idea. He's trying so hard.
Jason Hilton 31:54
How can you still not pronounce "electric" right? He's been working at the Ministry for years!
Christina Kann 32:00
No one will talk to him about "ekel-tricity."
Mary Clay Watt 32:03
And we find out that he collects plugs. So he should know that it's pronounced "electric."
Jason Hilton 32:13
Yeah. I always wondered what goes on at a Muggle research because I'm like, "Can't you just go to a library?" Like a Muggle library? And find out like everything about them? We are really good at recording like literally everything about ourselves.
Christina Kann 32:30
Yeah, that is true. We love to do that.
Jason Hilton 32:33
But it's less fun that way.
Christina Kann 32:34
So the Dursleys back away from Mr. Weasley in fear and horror. He tries to explain the Floo network to them, kind of -- well, he tries to explain -- "Well, this happened because we hooked you up to the Floo network." And he's just talking. He's like, "I can fix everything. Don't even worry about it." But they are actually in fact worried about it. I don't think they say almost a thing for like the rest of this chapter.
Mary Clay Watt 33:04
Yeah, they're just standing there in shock. Yeah.
Jason Hilton 33:07
Yeah. And there's very, very graphic depictions of what Uncle Vernon's face is doing right now. And Aunt Petunia "chewing her tongue," which sounds really painful. She doesn't even say a word in this chapter.
Christina Kann 33:25
I think I know what that means. I have this like thing that I do that where I like, kind of chew the inside of my mouth a little bit.
Jason Hilton 33:33
Oh, I do that, but your tongue? I don't --ow! That's a British thing.
Christina Kann 33:38
I think it's like the same kind of thing, though. You know what I mean?
Mary Clay Watt 33:53
Listeners, try at home.
Christina Kann 33:56
Hit us up if you're a tongue chewer, let us know.
Jason Hilton 34:00
Like and subscribe.
Christina Kann 34:02
Like and subscribe, all tongue chewers. Fred and George are like "Lol, we'll go get your trunk, Harry."
Jason Hilton 34:11
They really want to see what Dudley looks like. Probably.
Christina Kann 34:14
Yeah, they've never met him and they lay eyes on him and then they decide to ruin his fucking life.
Jason Hilton 34:22
Essentially poison him.
Christina Kann 34:24
Mary Clay Watt 34:26
It is a funny note -- again, not that this is the chapter that we're discussing -- but in the next chapter, you know, Arthur tries to chastise them for what they do. And they're like, "In our defense, we didn't do it because he's a Muggle. We did it because he's terrible. I mean, he's actually the worst."
Christina Kann 34:44
Jason Hilton 34:44
He got the pigtail already.
Mary Clay Watt 34:47
I think we're good now.
Jason Hilton 34:48
Well, he's continually horrible to him. He didn't really learn his lesson the first time.
Christina Kann 34:52
I maintain that he hasn't done anything this book that we've seen.
Jason Hilton 34:55
Christina Kann 34:56
So Mr. Weasley is trying to make small talk but he also just can't contain his excitement about like the Muggle shit around him. It's very adorable.
Jason Hilton 35:08
It's like when I'm someone you barely know, like a friend of a friend or an in-law or something, who like, doesn't really know that much about you, but knows that you own batteries. So that's like the only thing he -- that's like the first thing he brings up. He's like, "I have a collection of batteries. My wife thinks I'm mad."
Mary Clay Watt 35:30
There's a note from narrator Harry, that's like, "The Dursleys probably did think him mad."
Christina Kann 35:36
Yeah, so Dudley returns to the room because Fred and George scared him.
Jason Hilton 35:42
He smells candy.
Christina Kann 35:43
And he smells candy. Mr. Weasley also tries and fails to make small talk with him. I think Mr. Weasley has it right. He looks at Dudley and he's like "That is a poor, stupid boy who doesn't stand a chance." And he uses his extra nice voice on him.
Jason Hilton 36:00
Yeah, I appreciate that. He's like, trying his best. He knows these people are awful to him, and he really could just be as cold as possible to them, but he's really trying his best to come off like a respectable, nice person.
Mary Clay Watt 36:15
Also, it's such a dad thing for him to be -- he says "Having a nice holiday?" Like, "How's your summer vacation going?"
Jason Hilton 36:22
Oh, yeah. "How's school going?"
Mary Clay Watt 36:24
"How's your break from school?" You know, that's such an appropriate dad question to ask.
Jason Hilton 36:29
"What's your major again?"
Christina Kann 36:31
I asked you how your summer break when at the beginning of this episode. They call me Pod Daddy. So Fred and George return with Harry's trunk, and Mr. Weasley magically lights a fire in the hearth, and he pulls out some Floo Powder. And he's like, "Fred, you go" and but on his way out Fred "spills" a massive bag of candy.
Jason Hilton 36:59
Quote, unquote, "accidentally spilled."
Mary Clay Watt 37:02
Oh, no, these candies fell out of my pocket.
Jason Hilton 37:05
Stop, no, come back.
Mary Clay Watt 37:06
Christina Kann 37:07
Oh, sorry! Are you on a diet? I'll get these away from you.
Jason Hilton 37:12
Go ahead. They're low fat.
Christina Kann 37:16
But like don't even worry about it because he gathers them up and then he leaves. He's gone. It's done. Never to worry. And then George goes next with Harry's trunk. And then Ron goes, and then it's Harry's turn. So Harry says goodbye. Obviously they don't answer him. And then Harry tries to leave, but Mr. Weasley stops him and asks the Dursleys if they heard Harry say bye. Arthur's like "Okay, well, you guys aren't even being like human decency levels with like this kid, hold the phone."
Jason Hilton 37:52
He's got a lot on his mind currently at the moment though. It's like, "What am I gonna do about this hole in my wall?" And he's coated with soot. No one wants soot.
Christina Kann 38:06
Arthur just really knows how to take things in stride and he's trying to encourage other people to do the same.
Jason Hilton 38:11
Yeah, I think that was captured pretty well by they actor. He always felt like such a sweetheart, you know?
Christina Kann 38:18
Jason Hilton 38:19
Just wants the best for everyone.
Christina Kann 38:21
He makes Uncle Vernon say goodbye. Like the shittiest goodbye.
Jason Hilton 38:25
Even though Harry really doesn't care.
Christina Kann 38:28
Yeah, he doesn't care at all. But it's important to Mr. Weasley. Mr. Weasley's like, "I'm uncomfortable leaving this conversation without this social norm. You got to tell him bye, dude." Alright, so then Harry like goes to walk into the fireplace but -- dun dun DUN -- there's a gagging sound, and Dursley's on the floor--
Mary Clay Watt 38:53
Christina Kann 38:54
Oh, yeah. What did I say?
Mary Clay Watt 38:56
Dursley. NOOOO WHERE'D IT GO??? Every now and then in this recording you'll just hear--
Jason Hilton 39:05
No, it's the most exciting thing about this chapter, so.
Mary Clay Watt 39:09
Jason Hilton 39:10
Tune in next time for the fly!
Christina Kann 39:15
Yeah, so Dudley is on the floor. He's basically choking on his own giant tongue. You look like you're getting sworn in.
Jason Hilton 39:25
She's just like waiting.
Mary Clay Watt 39:26
Oh. OH! What now?
Jason Hilton 39:30
Mary Clay Watt 39:31
Oh, I got it. I got it. I'm gonna send you guys a picture
Christina Kann 39:36
Mary Clay Watt 39:38
Murder she wrote! Murder she did. Okay anyway.
Jason Hilton 39:44
Murder she do.
Mary Clay Watt 39:48
Here, I'll send it in Discord, and then people will have context for this a week later.
Jason Hilton 39:53
Just send it now. No caption whatsoever. Just a dead fly. Everyone's going to be like, "Is Mary Clay okay?"
Christina Kann 40:12
Just say "no context spoilers for next week."
Mary Clay Watt 40:16
Okay, there we go.
Jason Hilton 40:18
Okay. All right back to Dudley's tongue.
Mary Clay Watt 40:22
Bitch. What now?
Christina Kann 40:26
Um, yeah, so Dudley is choking on his own giant tongue. He must be so scared. I'm so sad for him in this chapter.
Mary Clay Watt 40:36
This isn't something that is really a practical joke. Later -- I think in the next book -- they evolve this trick to have the cure attached to it. So it's not something that you're going to be stuck with forever. So I think that's fine and funny to trick your friends into eating some candy and then it's like, "Oh, your tongue's massive. Haha. Alright, here's the antidote."
Christina Kann 41:04
Later in the book, Neville just turns -- there's a line something like "Neville caused a minor disruption by suddenly turning into a large canary" because he ate a canary creamer or whatever. That's hilarious. This is bullying.
Mary Clay Watt 41:21
It's just a funny line.
Jason Hilton 41:25
No, he has to go to the hospital for this.
Mary Clay Watt 41:28
It's also the fact that they left the candy, and then, Arthur was one minute 30 seconds away from leaving. I think it could have been different if they were going to be with Dudley for the next, you know, day, where like, a wizard could come in and fix this immediately. But they gave him the candy, not knowing -- we find out later this is a test -- not knowing what it would do to him, they left this candy for him. That's just mean.
Jason Hilton 42:05
Yeah, but it's always with like that kind of cynicism that that JK Rowling does where--
Mary Clay Watt 42:12
Ooh, it's twitching.
Jason Hilton 42:13
Mary Clay Watt 42:17
The cynicism that JK Rowling does, continue.
Jason Hilton 42:19
Yeah, where like, it's always like, these people are mean so it's okay to laugh at them. And it's okay to be mean to them. The pig tail was one thing. Him almost choking on his own tongue is a different thing. They wouldn't even know if he ate them while they were still there. So what if he ate them like two hours later and there was no wizards around?
Mary Clay Watt 42:42
Jason Hilton 42:43
And be like, "What the hell is happening?" This sounds horrifying, and it's probably for the best that they didn't put this in the movie because I don't think any kid would be okay with seeing a giant purple python coming out of a kid's mouth.
Mary Clay Watt 42:57
Oh, that's right. The movie just opens with like, Harry like having a bad dream?
Jason Hilton 43:04
Yeah. He's just at the Burrow. I think they were wise in saying, "We don't you don't need to know how he got to the Burrow. We just need him to be at the Burrow."
Christina Kann 43:14
Yeah. For sure.
Jason Hilton 43:15
Because I was looking ahead and I was like, "Oh God, the Quidditch World Cup doesn't even start for another 50 pages."
Christina Kann 43:23
Tell me about it. They don't even get to Hogwarts until, I think, page 130.
Mary Clay Watt 43:31
Yeah, it's crazy.
Jason Hilton 43:32
Christina Kann 43:32
Mary Clay Watt 43:33
They don't even leave the Shire till page 150. Same kind of energy.
Jason Hilton 43:41
When I was younger, this was probably the longest book I've ever read. I think it possibly still is. Is Deathly Hallows longer?
Mary Clay Watt 43:49
Order of the Phoenix is.
Christina Kann 43:50
Is it really? I thought this was the longest one.
Mary Clay Watt 43:53
No, Order the Phoenix is the longest.
Jason Hilton 43:54
Oh, so that's the longest book I've ever read, I guess. Because I don't think I've ever read anything over 800 pages.
Christina Kann 43:59
I've mentioned before that this is the book that made me believe as a kid that I could read big books, because I could just destroy this.
Jason Hilton 44:09
It is pretty magical -- no pun intended -- how we kind of grew up to be their ages as the books were coming out. So it was like, "Ooh, we're 14 now, we can handle this kind of book." You know?
Christina Kann 44:23
Yeah. Yeah. I think the longest book I've ever read was one of the Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones Five, whatever the fuck that book is.
Jason Hilton 44:31
I mean, if you want to count Lord of the Rings as one book.
Mary Clay Watt 44:33
I was gonna say, yeah.
Christina Kann 44:34
No, I don't.
Mary Clay Watt 44:36
A thousand pages.
Jason Hilton 44:39
I've always wondered about getting that edition of Lord of the Rings. It's like all three books combined into one.
Mary Clay Watt 44:44
When I was a kid, I would go to the library and specifically pick out large books for the sole purpose -- This is something that like I'm really just realizing now -- for the sole purpose of being like, "Look at my giant book that I'm reading. Aren't I better than you and your fucking Frog and Toad?" What is it? Mr. Toad and Frog?
Christina Kann 45:07
There's the Slytherin in her. We're seeing the Slytherin side. It is Frog and Toad. They're friends, they love each other.
Mary Clay Watt 45:16
I was reading one of their stories to a kid last week was babysitting, snd it's just so delightful. I think Frog and Toad could easily be hobbits, you know? The whole plot of this story is that Toad made a list and it's like, "Wake up, get out of bed, get dressed," and it would be like, "And then he got dressed, and he crossed it off the list." And then it was like, "Go see Frog," and he would go and see Frog and then it was like, "And then he crossed it off the list." And it was just so simplistic, but I was like, "This is wonderful." The plot twist in the story is that he lost his list and was like, "But what do I do next? I don't have my list!"
Christina Kann 46:09
Jason Hilton 46:10
Frog talk and fly talk. This is great.
Christina Kann 46:13
I feel like my life is just an elaborate series of lists. Okay, so we're on the floor.
Jason Hilton 46:22
We're on the ground.
Christina Kann 46:23
With Dudley! He's having a bad day!
Jason Hilton 46:27
Is there anything like a detail or something you could talk about?
actual ghost probably 46:32
How bout now?
Mary Clay Watt 46:33
What was that?
Christina Kann 46:34
What was that?
Mary Clay Watt 46:35
Do you not hear that?
Jason Hilton 46:36
Sorry. Let me turn that off.
Mary Clay Watt 46:39
What the hell?
actual ghost probably 46:40
Can you hear me now?
Jason Hilton 46:43
A weird thing--
Mary Clay Watt 46:44
It's still going! I heard it. I heard something just say "Can you hear me now?"
Jason Hilton 46:48
Okay, my house is like kind of haunted, but it's not really. So what happens--
Mary Clay Watt 46:53
I can hear it.
Jason Hilton 46:54
You can still hear it?
Mary Clay Watt 46:55
It's still talking.
Jason Hilton 46:56
Oh my god.
actual ghost probably 46:58
Mary Clay Watt 46:58
Hang on, be quiet for a second.
Jason Hilton 47:00
I can't hear it.
Mary Clay Watt 47:03
Shh. This is so freaky.
Jason Hilton 47:07
Wait, wait does it sound like a hillbilly voice?
Mary Clay Watt 47:11
Jason Hilton 47:12
Yeah, yeah, it's weird because I can't hear right now, but you can. It must be coming through my microphone or something. But okay, so what happens specifically in my house -- and I don't know why it happens--
actual ghost probably 47:24
Jason Hilton 47:25
I pick up radio signals.
Mary Clay Watt 47:26
It's still go ing!
Jason Hilton 47:27
Yep. I hope like -- oh god, I hope my audio isn't recording it. Oh, darn it.
actual ghost probably 47:34
*mumbles about microphones*
Mary Clay Watt 47:35
I really hope that picks up on the recording.
actual ghost probably 47:38
I know that.
Mary Clay Watt 47:40
He said "I know that." Sir, can you hear us?
Jason Hilton 47:46
Christina Kann 47:48
Guys, I can't with this. I'm easily spooked.
Mary Clay Watt 47:52
It's like those urban legends you hear about a family's baby monitor, like a dude was listening in on their baby monitor or something, you know?
Christina Kann 48:02
Jason Hilton 48:03
Yeah, so what really happens is we pick up radio signals for some reason. I've looked into it several times.
Christina Kann 48:10
Have you ever talked to Sean about your audio haunting?
Mary Clay Watt 48:13
Jason Hilton 48:15
It is really weird because I do hear these conversations between people -- Sometimes, if I leave like my stereo on or my receiver on, I can hear it. My guitar amp picks it up.
Christina Kann 48:26
That's hauntening! That's a hauntening.
Jason Hilton 48:28
It's not haunting! It's really fucking annoying.
Mary Clay Watt 48:31
It's a haunting. Your house is haunted by a ghost who was like a radio DJ, I think.
Jason Hilton 48:40
It happened to me before. I pick up these guys who still communicate via like walkie talkie or ham radio or something.
Mary Clay Watt 48:47
Yo we were just talking about -- that's how we started the episode! We were talking about that we needed to end over sentences with "over>'
Jason Hilton 48:53
And these guys came to help us! How nice of them.
Mary Clay Watt 48:58
Okay, we were talking about Dudley's tongue and it's terrible. He's on the floor. He's choking.
Christina Kann 49:04
I'm choking because I've been laughing too hard. Let me take a sip of water.
Mary Clay Watt 49:08
That's so freaky.
Jason Hilton 49:09
Welcome to my life.
Christina Kann 49:12
All right. Where are we?
Mary Clay Watt 49:14
I can't wait. Christina, please tell me when you are editing this if it picks it up.
Jason Hilton 49:21
I hope it doesn't.
Christina Kann 49:21
I'm gonna have to make Sean sit in the room with me while I listen to it because I'm not brave enough.
Mary Clay Watt 49:26
It was around one hour, the one-hour audio.
actual ghost probably 49:30
I'm talking on the mic that came with the radio. Can you hear me?
Mary Clay Watt 49:34
Did you just hear--?
Christina Kann 49:36
He's talking on the mic that came with the radio!
Mary Clay Watt 49:39
"Can you hear me?" is what he said. I wish this was juicier.
Jason Hilton 49:45
I wish I could hear it.
Mary Clay Watt 49:51
Okay. Let's keep going through the chapter.
Christina Kann 49:54
I'm trying to hold it together.
Jason Hilton 49:55
They never talk about anything interesting. I can't even understand them sometimes. Oh, actually, sometimes I think they do know that it happens because I just randomly hear like *incredibly strange sound* like someone making these really weird noises on purpose. I feel like he knows that people can hear him. I don't know. I wish I could find this man.
Christina Kann 50:23
Oh my god, that is too scary.
Mary Clay Watt 50:25
It's so freaky!
Jason Hilton 50:26
I've lived in the house for three years and I wish I could meet this man and just punch him because he's interrupted so many things. It happened on my fucking soundbar for my TV! This fucking guy's voice would come in through it.
Christina Kann 50:40
Have you talked to your neighbors?
Mary Clay Watt 50:42
Have you talked to the FBI?
Christina Kann 50:44
And or the FBI?
Jason Hilton 50:46
No. I've looked into it. I've even got like these clips all over my microphones that are supposed to suppress any signals coming in. And it still doesn't -- it works. It happens less. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But that's the only thing I've been able to do so far. I think it has something to do with the wiring in my house. It's really old.
Mary Clay Watt 51:07
Oh my god.
Jason Hilton 51:09
I don't know. But it happened to me a few times in my last apartment.
Christina Kann 51:13
Okay, we're haunted. We're haunted and I'm moving on.
Jason Hilton 51:15
It's Halloween. We're spooky.
Mary Clay Watt 51:17
Forge onward; forge onward.
Christina Kann 51:19
Forge onward. So next here's what happens: all hell breaks loose. And Petunia tries to pull Dudley's tongue out of his mouth. Question mark. Why?
Jason Hilton 51:29
Incorrect first aid procedure. If someone has a swollen tongue, don't rip it out.
Christina Kann 51:35
Yeah, that's just like so the wrong move.
Mary Clay Watt 51:37
You need to get it out of -- maybe not try to rip it out, but pull it out.
Jason Hilton 51:40
I don't think she was even aware it was tongue, though. out.
Mary Clay Watt 51:43
Yeah, I think that's what it is. Because they're just like, "He's choking on something. Get it out of his mouth."
Christina Kann 51:49
Ugh. Okay, so Uncle Vernon and Arthur Weasley start like screaming at each other.
Jason Hilton 51:57
It's mostly Vernon screaming.
Christina Kann 51:59
Mary Clay Watt 52:00
And Arthur's like, "I can fix it if you just let me."
Jason Hilton 52:05
But realistically, how can you be calm in this situation at all amd be listening to this dumb ass who blew up in your fireplace and poisoned your son?
Mary Clay Watt 52:14
Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily trust him at this point either.
Christina Kann 52:18
But the thing is that like magic is the only way that this could just be fixed. You know? I would be like, "Yes, fix this and then you can fuck right off."
Jason Hilton 52:27
Christina Kann 52:28
But instead, Uncle Vernon starts throwing pieces of china at Mr. Weasley, and Mr. Weasley starts like zapping them out of the air.
Jason Hilton 52:38
That my favorite fat-shamey line in this entire chapter is "bellowing like a wounded hippo." "Uncle Vernon snatched up another ornament, bellowing like a wounded hippo." That's a new one.
Mary Clay Watt 52:49
Jason Hilton 52:51
He usually gets called a walrus, so she's diversifying a little bit. These were the magic beasts before they were fantastic.
Christina Kann 52:58
So Mr. Weasley yells at Harry to like, just go. So Harry's like, "Yes, I will. I will go."
Jason Hilton 53:06
Mary Clay Watt 53:07
Well, he's debating whatever, and then something goes flying right past his head and like smashes. And he's like, "Okay, bye! See you next summer!"
Christina Kann 53:19
Yeah, literally. And um, that's that. He deuces.
Mary Clay Watt 53:25
That's the end of the chapter. That's it. Should have been combined, I think, with the previous chapter.
Christina Kann 53:31
I completely agree.
Mary Clay Watt 53:33
Especially cuz this is the book where the chapters really start getting long. I don't know if that's just like her formula of they get longer as the book goes on, and so she doesn't like having long chapters towards the beginning of the book.
Christina Kann 53:49
Yeah. We've also talked about different reasons. Maybe some people were starting with this books, since the series was just really starting to get famous when it came out. Or because the other books were so short, they're like, "Okay, don't worry, this is still easy to read," and it's a very slow couple of chapters in the beginning, before gaining momentum really quickly. I totally think that chapters two, three and four should all have been combined into one more concise chapter.
Jason Hilton 54:16
Yeah, like a little slightly condensed chapter. Even though, I mean, some of the details are kind of funny, I suppose. But yeah, just want to get to the tournament.
Christina Kann 54:27
Let's get to the point!
Jason Hilton 54:28
Let's get to the magic Nazis.
Mary Clay Watt 54:32
I was even happy to just get to the Burrow, you know? I'll settle for the Burrow.
Christina Kann 54:39
It's so bananas that this is called Back to the Burrow and we don't --
Jason Hilton 54:45
It's like Back to the Future. They don't go back to the future until the very, very end.
Mary Clay Watt 54:48
The very end, yeah. It's like Desolation of Smaug. Smaug doesn't show up until one hour and 52 minutes.
Jason Hilton 54:53
And he doesn't even get desolated until the next movie.
Mary Clay Watt 54:56
Oh, don't get me started stupid. I have a full probably combined one hours' worth of content just on that,
Jason Hilton 55:09
It really didn't need to be three movies.
Mary Clay Watt 55:11
Don't. I literally have an entire thing is so fucking series of episodes dedicated to this issue.
Jason Hilton 55:16
No I believe you.
Christina Kann 55:20
Hey guys? Hey guys?
Christina Kann 55:21
Christina Kann 55:22
This is actually -- this is the wrong podcast. I don't have anything better to say, though. Does anyone have any final thoughts about this chapter?
Jason Hilton 55:31
It was a slightly horrifying, but . . . meh?
Christina Kann 55:35
It was definitely stressful.
Jason Hilton 55:36
It had the Weasleys, so that's a plus.
actual ghost probably 55:38
*mumble mumble* right down the street.
Jason Hilton 55:41
Oh are they coming back? Dammit.
Christina Kann 55:43
I just like can't get it together.
Jason Hilton 55:45
I don't blame you.
Christina Kann 55:46
Like, I can't endure the ghost voice.
Mary Clay Watt 55:49
This is Jason's blast appearance on the podcast.
Jason Hilton 55:55
Sir, can you please get off this line? We're hosting a Harry Potter podcast, we're trying to be serious.
Mary Clay Watt 56:02
It's a very serious podcast.
Jason Hilton 56:03
It's very professional.
Mary Clay Watt 56:05
A third of this episode was definitely not about me killing a fly.
Christina Kann 56:12
Alright, any final thoughts about this chapter?
Mary Clay Watt 56:15
Jason Hilton 56:15
No. Ghost man was more interesting than this chapter.
Mary Clay Watt 56:18
I just want to add in for next week that one of my favorite favorite parts is when they walk out into the yard, and Bill and Charlie have the tables floating in the air and they're just banging them against each other, just because.
Christina Kann 56:33
Jason Hilton 56:33
I was wondering what that picture was about. I was like, "What happens in the next chapter?" I don't read very often. I don't know how to.
Mary Clay Watt 56:41
That's the end of the episode.
Christina Kann 56:46
No, no, no.
Jason Hilton 56:47
Christina Kann 56:48
Let's move on to plugs. I would love to start by plugging our Patreon. For as little as $1 a month, you can join our Discord community and support the podcast.
Mary Clay Watt 57:00
See that picture of the fly!
Christina Kann 57:02
Yeah, exactly. And for the $5 month tier, you get bonus episodes. And this month, we covered My Immortal, the fanfic and its lore. So that was incredibly fun. That was like the most fun I've had -- I love our bonus episodes. So I definitely recommend signing up for our Patreon. Link is in the show notes. Jason, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people find you on the internet?
Jason Hilton 57:30
You can find me on Instagram @picturesofjay and Twitter @picturesofjay90. And you can find all of us at the Movie Night Crew Podcast, where every Sunday we review a different movie. So if you want to hear Tina and Haley and Brooke talk about anything that's not Harry Potter, then you can come, and we talk about a lot of different types of movies. We all just bring in our collective tastes and suggestions and force our friends to watch what we like. And sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, snd sometimes it's really funny. Not to burst my own bubble, but -- wait, that's not the right phrase. Not to toot --
Christina Kann 58:20
Toot your own horn.
Jason Hilton 58:21
Not to toot my own horn, but some episodes have been pretty good so far. I don't know how to advertise myself, by the way.
Christina Kann 58:29
You're doing great.
Mary Clay Watt 58:30
You did a great job.
Jason Hilton 58:30
But something to plug that's not my podcast. If you have HBO Max, I would recommend watching a show called At Home with Amy Sedaris. Do you guys -- are you familiar with that particular comedian?
Mary Clay Watt 58:43
Jason Hilton 58:44
It's like a fake cooking show, but it's like an old-fashioned cooking show from like the 1960s where they teach you how to do everything, but it's like, lame crafts and stuff. It's kind of a sketch show, but Amy Sedaris is really funny. She's a really funny comedian. If you watch Bojack Horseman, she plays the cat manager, that voice.
Christina Kann 59:09
Jason Hilton 59:11
Yeah, so that's her. She just pretends to be this person whose basically entire life is to do this, this cooking show or this home network show, and it's so old-fashioned. She's got a funny accent. She does multiple characters. It's really bizarre sometimes. If you like, kind of like Adult Swim humor sometimes, it's pretty funny. So if you can get HBO Max, there's three seasons of it. And it's a it's a funny sketch show. So that's my plug: At Home with Amy Sedaris.
Christina Kann 59:40
Hell yeah. Thank you so much. That's linked in the show notes. Mary Clay, there you are. Where can people find you on the internet?
Mary Clay Watt 59:47
Yeah, you can listen to That's What I'm Tolkien About wherever you get podcasts. Right now, I'm covering the Hobbit movies. You can follow me on Instagram @mc -- what? What is Instagram handle? Follow me on Instagram @meturndownforwhat and you can follow me on Twitter @mcwattsup. And it's funny you mentioned Bojack because that's what I was gonna plug. I watched Bojack for the first time this summer. I watched the first couple episodes years ago, and I was like, "I am not into this. I'm not feeling this." And then this summer, I was like, "I need to stop watching this same three shows over and over again. I'm going to force myself to watch a new show," and it was Bojack. I finished it and was like, "That was a damn good show. That was really, really excellent. That was amazing." So if you have not watched Bojack, definitely give the first season a try. Power through; it kind of takes a couple episodes to get into the world, get into the characters, and get some of the quippy humor, and also get familiar with the the depressing feelings that you'll get in touch with throughout the season.
Jason Hilton 1:01:13
That is a good post-2020 show.
Christina Kann 1:01:17
I've been your host Christina. You can follow me on Instagram @christinathekann. You can follow me on Twitter @christina_kann. You can follow me on TikTok @sproutsprivatestash. I would like to recommend that everyone watch The Way of the House Husband on Netflix. Haley plugged it several months ago, and it's a very silly little anime about this gangster-turned-house-husband who handles all of his housekeeping duties with the same intensity that he handled like, gang activities, like mob activities. And it's very hilarious. They're short little episodes that have like -- they're like bite size; they're not very much substance. But like, fun to watch, you know? Dope! Well Jason, thank you so much for joining us for this most silliest of episodes.
Jason Hilton 1:02:11
Thanks for having me on again.
Christina Kann 1:02:12
Yes. And Mary Clay, there you are. I'm so glad to have you back.
Mary Clay Watt 1:02:17
Hi, I'm here with the remains of the fly sitting next to me still.
Christina Kann 1:02:23
Alright gang, I gotta go finish reading "The Floo and You: Hooking Your Home to the Floo Network" before this book starts throwing china at me. Bye!
Mary Clay Watt 1:02:36
Jason Hilton 1:02:36
That was great.
Christina Kann 1:02:39
The Restricted Section is a member of the Movie Night Crew Network, which features other amazing podcasts such as its namesake, Movie Night Crew, which is an extra chaotic podcast featuring the gang just shooting the shit about whatever movie they just watched.
All righty. It's movie night. Grab your popcorn, grab your coffee. Grab your friend. Grab a cat. And let's go! Who directed this? What year did it come out? Is that that girl from that show? Who wrote this? Was the cat? Who would you rather bang? Does this pass the Bechdel test? What about the Steve Buscemi test? Does a woman literally speak in this movie? Oh my god a dog. This reminds me of in Harry Potter. When Are we recording? What are the critics say? It's a guilty pleasure. What's your rating? Can you be quiet? Oh my god. Movie Night Crew. It's just like watching movies with your friends and then arguing about it after. Every Sunday wherever you get podcasts.
Christina Kann 1:03:49
The Restricted Section was created by me, Christina Kann, based on the book series by JK Rowling. All music by Ryan Kann. Logo by Michael Hardison. Support us on patreon.com/restrictedsection. For as little as $1 a month, you can gain access to our Discord community server, which is a really happy place to be, and there are other rewards as well, such as bonus episodes and Zoom happy hour hangouts. Be sure to follow us on Instagram @restrictedsectionpod, on Twitter @restrictedpod, and on Facebook @restrictedsectionpod. Also feel free to shoot us an email at email@example.com to share your thoughts, feelings, complaints, conspiracy theories, or even lavish praise.
Christina Kann 1:04:36
Alright, cool, well 1-2-3 byeee.
Cari, Lelia Hilton, trailer, Christina Kann
Christina Kann 00:02
"He held up the envelope in which Mrs. Weasley's letter had come, and Harry had to fight down a laugh. Every bit of it was covered in stamps, except for a square inch on the front, into which Mrs. Weasley had squeezed the Dursleys' address in minute handwriting."
Christina Kann 00:37
What's up, Pott-heads? Welcome to The Restricted Section, a show in which a bunch of nerds with potty mouths reread the Harry Potter series for the umpteenth time and discuss the way that the story in its themes have stayed with a generation into adulthood. Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't done the reading, don't worry. We did it for you. Here's what we're talking about today.
Christina Kann 00:57
Chapter Three: The Invitation. During breakfast one day, the text's extremely heavy-handed and deplorable fat-shaming is interrupted when Uncle Vernon gets some unusual mail. He brings Harry into the living room to share that Mrs. Weasley has sent a letter asking if Harry can join the Weasleys at the Quidditch World Cup. She has also included approximately 1 million stamps on the envelope because she doesn't know how Muggle mail works, okay? So Harry and Vernon go back and forth a little bit, and finally Harry uses his only leverage to get his way by threatening to write to Sirius Black who the Dursleys think is just an actual escaped guilty convicted murderer who is related to Harry. So yeah, so go Harry well done.
Christina Kann 01:43
Welcome to The Restricted Section, where using too many stamps is literally as bad as murder, you stinking witch! I am tickled pink to be joined today by my most euphonious friend Leila. Say hello to the listeners, Lelia.
Lelia Hilton 02:02
*singing* Hello to the listeners, Lelia.
Christina Kann 02:05
Oh my god, she knows what euphonious means.
Lelia Hilton 02:07
Christina Kann 02:09
I literally googled "word that means good at singing."
Lelia Hilton 02:13
I could have not known what it meant but I just sing everything -- but yeah, I knew what it meant.
Christina Kann 02:17
Well, it's also like euphoric plus like phonetic? Mmm -- moving on. And I am so delighted that our special guest this week is Cari, co-host of Curly Critics over on WBNE. Say hello to the listeners, Cari.
Hi. I'm so excited to be here. I also did not know what that word meant that you said.
Christina Kann 02:38
Yeah, I had no idea.
Christina Kann 02:41
Me neither. I had to Google a word good enough to describe Lelia.
Lelia Hilton 02:47
Please, do go on.
Christina Kann 02:50
So Cari, can you please tell the listeners what your podcast is all about?
Yeah, me and my best friend, Jade, have a podcast where we review things: books, movies, TV shows. Right now, we're going through the Harry Potter books.
Christina Kann 03:05
I was gonna say, they do cover some topics that you might be interested in, dear listener.
We're on book six right now, but our lives got really busy. So we're having to slow down. But that's the goal.
Christina Kann 03:16
Pacing yourself through the Harry Potter books is such a challenge.
Christina Kann 03:22
I mean, y'all like Harry Potter. That's why you're here. I definitely recommend following them on Twitter because they're tweeting some pretty choice Harry Potter takes right now.
I'm just full of them all the time.
Christina Kann 03:34
So what is your Harry Potter history? When did you start reading the books? When did you watch the movie? Like what's going on?
Yeah, so I wasn't allowed to read them growing up, but all of my friends were. So finally I convinced my mom to let me read them when I was like 12. And I read all seven of them in seven days.
Christina Kann 03:56
Oh my god. That's like how the world was created.
I watched the first movie after the first book. Like I finished the first book and then immediately watched the first movie. And then I was like, "I cannot do this again." I just spent the whole movie being like, these are the things that are different. So after I read all of them, I watched all the movies.
Christina Kann 04:14
Right. It's good to have closure on the book series so you can enjoy the films as a totally separate thing. Yeah, getting too into the film discourse is rough because in the end, no matter what your complaints are, I'm gonna watch them.
Christina Kann 04:32
I really enjoy them. But if we're gonna start taking notes, yes, I do have a pretty comprehensive list.
Lelia Hilton 04:40
I feel like, Tina, when the books came out, we were around the same age as the main characters. I don't know, Cari, I'm not sure how old you are. We don't have to talk about it. It's fine.
Much younger than you.
Christina Kann 04:55
I read the original trilogy when they first came out, and I was eight years old.
Lelia Hilton 05:00
Yeah. And I feel like when the movies came out, I was not thinking logically like, "I must finish every book." No, I was just like, I love thing. Thing comes out that I like. Let's watch thing related to thing.
Christina Kann 05:13
Lelia Hilton 05:14
I remember loving it. I was like, "They captured every detail."
Christina Kann 05:18
I do remember having great anxiety before every movie and coming out always generally relieved, you know? Generally like, "Okay, all right. No, that feels good. I feel good about that."
Lelia Hilton 05:29
Yeah, I think the only one I didn't feel that way about was the Order the Phoenix, obviously, but I didn't like the book that much either. Definitely Hallows Part -- Which one of the parts was better than the other?
Christina Kann 05:44
Okay, well, I'm gonna need some clarification on that.
Lelia Hilton 05:47
You cannot have it.
Christina Kann 05:50
So Cari, if you had to sort yourself, what Hogwarts house are you?
Christina Kann 05:57
Okay, we tend to get a lot of Ravenclaws on the show. Don't know why. I guess they like talking about books. What part of the whole Ravenclaw persona do you relate with?
I really love knowledge, love learning. I'm getting my master's right now, so I'm just like, all the school. I just love learning. And I don't like less is really like learning for the application use of it, which is more of a Slytherin thing, getting knowledge and then using it. I'm just like, I want to know things, which is why I think I'm more Ravenclaw than Slytherin.
Christina Kann 06:32
Yes, it's the pursuit of knowledge for knowledge's sake.
Christina Kann 06:37
That's beautiful. I love it. We could do with a little bit more of that perhaos in this book series. So this chapter, what are we doing? It is chapter three of Goblet of Fire, The Invitation. I know I've said this in last week's episode, but it really is so bananas how stupid these first couple of chapters are, considering some of the chapters that happen later in this book that are just so dense.
Lelia Hilton 07:05
So dense. Yeah, I just finished rereading this actually on Sunday. It took me a long time to get through, which was surprising to me, because I feel like as a kid I ripped right through it.
Christina Kann 07:17
It is 735 pages.
Lelia Hilton 07:19
Yeah, but but Cari read it in a day.
No, I cannot do that now. It took me like two weeks to read Goblet of Fire and Order the Phoenix when I did them recently. And I was just like, "How did I do this as a child?"
Lelia Hilton 07:33
How did we? Because I just ripped right through it as well.
Christina Kann 07:36
I am totally with you. I used to read them in like a day. I think part of it is just like a genuine -- not just not having responsibilities as a child, but even furthermore, knowing that there's no weight of the world on you. There's no "I could be doing dishes." It's like, "I am eight years old. And I just all I have to do is read right now."
Lelia Hilton 08:02
Yeah, there's nothing else. You have no other responsibilities.
Christina Kann 08:06
Because honestly, I have been able to read a lot better recently than ever before. And it's because I have the kind of job where you just kind of hang out. And so it takes me kind of back to the good old days where I'm like, "Wow, there's actually kind of nothing else I could be doing right now. Like I'm not home. I can't be doing dishes. I'll just read 400 pages of Harry Potter."
Wow, I want that job.
Christina Kann 08:32
I mean, a Ravenclaw wouldn't be happy in this job for sure. It is not intellectually stimulating. But I have a good time. So it is morning time at the Dursleys' house. We get some pretty strong fat-shaming about Dudley like right away. It's not subtle. I think it's pretty uncomfortable. What do you guys think?
Oh, I don't like it.
Lelia Hilton 09:00
Yeah, it's never been something that I appreciated. I think I thought maybe thought it was funny as a kid the first time she made a fat joke, like maybe the first time.
Christina Kann 09:11
Lelia Hilton 09:11
But then she doesn't -- like she just can't -- Honestly, try to find one sentence about them that doesn't have some kind of fat or hog-shaped or whatever.
Christina Kann 09:22
Lelia Hilton 09:22
There's not one there are other qualities and people even if they're despicable, you know?
Yeah. In this, it goes on for like two, three pages of just talking about how fat Dudley is.
Lelia Hilton 09:32
How fat is he?
Christina Kann 09:34
Yeah, on a narrative level, almost every time she mentions Dudley, she mentions how fat he is. But then also, the plot right now, this chapter, starts with us talking about how he's on a diet.
Lelia Hilton 09:48
A diet, yeah.
Christina Kann 09:49
Because his school nurse has raised concerns, which is super valid, but it's a health concern. Like, I can't imagine a writer making jokes to this extent about hypertension, or diabetes, or some other chronic health concern.
Just the diet itself makes me uncomfortable. This kid is so used to eating so much food and you're giving him like a quarter of a grapefruit. That's not enough food to sustain somebody.
Christina Kann 10:17
It's definitely not enough food. And then also, from what I understand from nutritional science, totally depriving yourself of stuff just make stronger cravings cuz it's like, "Wow, I get nothing now."
Lelia Hilton 10:31
I don't think that's how diets work. I think we can all -- we all have kind of -- at least I've definitely been up and down the road with diets.
Christina Kann 10:38
Wow. Same. That's exactly how I would describe it.
Lelia Hilton 10:40
What is it -- What did Golden Girls? -- *singing* Goin' down the road and back again. */singing* With diets.
Christina Kann 10:48
Lelia Hilton 10:49
Oh, my God. Thank you. Thank "eu." E U.
Christina Kann 10:55
Thank you, phony.
Lelia Hilton 10:56
Thank you, phony. Us! Okay. Oh, God. Okay, I did diets before, but one thing that you never do, you always think like, "You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna wake up tomorrow, and I'm gonna make myself for breakfast a smoothie." And you're like, "That goes really good." You're like, "I like smoothies. This is yummy." Lunch. "I'm gonna have a kale salad with chicken on it. Okay, like I meal prepped this, I can handle it." And then dinner comes, and you're like, "I'll have chicken and brown rice." And you're like, "I just absolutely will not do that." Or if you do that, you end up -- I would end up eating like a full two sleeves of Oreos.
Christina Kann 11:40
Like, it's fine, because I had this healthy dinner. Yeah, for sure. It's really just the way that this woman correlates the fatness with -- it's like so obviously supposed to be painting him as a bad person.
Lelia Hilton 11:58
Yeah, it's like fat is bad.
Christina Kann 12:00
Yeah. And it's like, he can be a really shitty person and fat in a way that is like, not related.
Lelia Hilton 12:08
Yeah. And I don't know if it's just HER?? I listened to last week's episode. Or if it's like a thing in England, like if body conscious stuff and maybe like curve culture and stuff like that was never . . . I don't know. I just feel like it's really a lot. It's just so much to correlate, like "This is an evil family and look how fucking fat they are." That's like, kind of the tone I get from her. I don't know. I guess we're supposed to hate them.
Christina Kann 12:46
Yeah, it kind of feels just so old-school to me, the way that old-timey like superstitions are like "Oh, well God's cursing them with fatness for being evil."
Lelia Hilton 12:59
Yeah. Oh, man.
Christina Kann 13:04
For some reason in my notes I wrote several specific quotes that I simply will not read, but they all end with WTF in all capitals. So everyone in the family has to be on the same diet as Dudley. So everyone gets -- this is so ridiculous -- a grapefruit quarter per person. Like at least let everyone have their own grapefruit. Come on.
Lelia Hilton 13:30
Yeah, it's a fruit. It's not even sweet fruit.
Christina Kann 13:33
It's like not even good fruit. It's like the punishment fruit. Do you guys like grapefruit?
Lelia Hilton 13:39
Lelia Hilton 13:40
I like grapefruit flavored things.
Christina Kann 13:42
Yeah, me too! Oh my god. The pamplemousse La Croix is my favorite.
Lelia Hilton 13:46
I do love me some pample.
Christina Kann 13:48
Or like a pomona.
Lelia Hilton 13:49
Ooh, what's that? I've had that before.
Christina Kann 13:51
It's a margarita but with grapefruit juice.
Lelia Hilton 13:54
Yeah, I love those.
Christina Kann 13:56
Oh, yeah. Wow, I forgot to confess that I broke the cardinal sin of The Restricted Section and I drank margaritas before recording. We've run into trouble with that before, but I think I'm holding it together pretty well.
Lelia Hilton 14:10
Where did you go? Did you go to that awesome little restaurant that's near you?
Christina Kann 14:15
Lelia Hilton 14:18
Oh, that's a different one. Like Pancho Villa?
Christina Kann 14:20
Are you talking about a little Mexico?
Lelia Hilton 14:23
Christina Kann 14:24
There's a lot of Mexican restaurants. Are you talking about the Annex?
Lelia Hilton 14:27
Christina Kann 14:30
Then I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Lelia Hilton 14:31
It's like one that you that makes good margs and you and Haley go all the time.
Christina Kann 14:35
Um, Little Mexico?
Lelia Hilton 14:36
Christina Kann 14:37
This is not great content. Our listeners mostly don't live here. Cari definitely doesn't live here. That'd be surprising.
Lelia Hilton 14:44
Christina Kann 14:46
Um, yeah. Wow. So Harry is a skinny kid. So his privilege as a skinny kid is that he has a whole stash of sweets upstairs that he got his friends to send him, and he just gets to eat it all. Because he's skinny, and he's the good guy.
Lelia Hilton 15:02
Lelia Hilton 15:04
And he's a most unusual boy!
Christina Kann 15:13
I just feel like it's all an extension of the setup from the last episode. But finally we're about to get to the action because the doorbell rings.
Christina Kann 15:26
Yay indeed. Uncle Vernon answers it, and it's the mailman being like, "Dude, look at this funny letter. Remember, three years ago, when those letters were like attacking you? And like there was owls sending them through your chimney and they were rolled up in the egg cartons or whatever?" Just kidding. The mailman probably didn't know about that. But I do feel like Vernon has mail trauma.
Lelia Hilton 15:52
Oh, for sure.
I feel like the Dursleys are so like, "We have to make sure that we look properly and we don't say the wrong thing." But I feel like none of their neighbors care.
Christina Kann 16:01
Like, the craziest things could happen. And then the Dursleys would just be like, "Oh, no, people are gonna find out!" And their neighbors are just like, "Oh. Okay. Owls."
Christina Kann 16:12
It has literally never occurred to me before that the neighbors might not care.
Lelia Hilton 16:17
Me neither. I'm like "They must because the Dursleys are so concerned."
Christina Kann 16:21
Yeah, yes, exactly. Like, wow, that's my new headcanon, that they're just surrounded by like college students and like, no one gives a shit.
Lelia Hilton 16:30
They're just whatever, man.
Christina Kann 16:33
Wow, that would be very funny. Um, okay, so Uncle Vernon is grumpy now, because of the mail, and he takes Harry into the living room. He reads this letter to Harry. And it's Mrs. Weasley writing to Uncle Vernon very politely to ask if Harry can come visit them and go to the Quidditch World Cup. A couple of things: I probably would have written earlier in the summer. Because it's just like a week away. Right? Or no, it's like, a day away.
Yeah, day away.
Christina Kann 17:13
She has no idea how long Muggle mail takes. Um, so yeah, I probably would have started at the beginning of the summer asking permission, believing that it would have taken some convincing, you know?
Lelia Hilton 17:28
I mean, they're gonna come anyway. So.
Lelia Hilton 17:31
Yeah, well, I don't think there's anything that they could have done to make the Dursleys be like, "You know what? He does deserve this. She said it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Like, heck, let's get little Harry go." Like, that's just not happening.
Christina Kann 17:50
It's very cute. Um, the letter is absolutely covered in stamps. She had to go to the Muggle post office to mail this anyway. Why not just go into the postmaster of Ottery St. Catchpole and ask how to put a stamp on a letter?
Christina Kann 17:54
At the end of the letter, she says "I do hope we've put enough stamps on," and like, she did.
Lelia Hilton 18:00
It's pretty cute.
She spends so much money on stamps. Stamps aren't cheap!
Christina Kann 18:24
Wow, I wonder how many stamps like that would be. probably like 30 stamps... times.... How much do stamps costs? Wait, I'm gonna refer to my stamps. Um, my stamps, just say "forever." Okay, that's useless, dammit. If only there was a math person here. Oh, well, moving on.
Lelia Hilton 18:46
It's funny because they did it to like, be -- they're like, "We must be inconspicuous!" You know? Like, "If I went in there and ask the postmaster, what's his face, how does one apply a stamp?" She was like, "They're going to know! They're gonna know something's off with us. They're gonna find my family." She has a lot at stake. So she's like, "Let's just like -- we know stamps are involved somehow. Let's just cover the sucker. Then the no one will think anything's out of the out of the ordinary."
If anything, she just made a lot of people's days because everybody who held that letter was like, "Wow, this is funny."
Lelia Hilton 19:26
Christina Kann 19:28
I have mailed things to our friends like Mats in Norway, and I feel like Molly Weasley when I'm stamping up those envelopes. I'm like, "Okay, this needs like $5 of stamps to get to Norway." That is very valid that Molly, I'm sure, wants to stay on the DL. But for what it's worth, Molly, my boss asked me literally last week how to prepare an envelope to be mailed. He genuinely had no idea; it was very endearing and ridiculous. Okay, so there's like considerable back and forth between Harry and Vernon. Harry is full sass.
I love that for him.
Lelia Hilton 20:16
Yes, me too.
Christina Kann 20:20
Honestly, Daniel Radcliffe made Harry too... uh...
Lelia Hilton 20:26
Christina Kann 20:28
I was gonna say "placid," right? What does mean?
Lelia Hilton 20:31
Christina Kann 20:32
No! Not flacid! Define placid -- with a p! It means "not easily upset or excited." Yes, it's the word I was looking for. He's just very milquetoast in the films. But little Harry's so sassy in these books.
Lelia Hilton 20:54
Christina Kann 20:55
And finally he uses Sirius Black as a threat. So Vernon gives him permission, because he's like, "You have a convict godfather. And that is alarming to me."
Lelia Hilton 21:10
I mean, at least he has something he can use to get basic necessities or not be killed.
I feel like nothing makes Sirius happier than knowing that he's being used as blackmail against Harry's aunt and uncle. Molly's letter talks about like, "I'm sure Harry's told you about this." Does she just not know that Harry has a horrible home life with the Dursleys? Like I feel like she should know that.
Lelia Hilton 21:41
Does he ever get into it with them? I can tell by her behavior -- well, no, that's because of what happens later in this chapter. No. I mean, I feel like Harry hasn't said anything.
But in Chamber of Secrets, they literally came and rescued him. So Ron at least knows what's going on.
Christina Kann 21:57
I think Ron knows what's going on. I think he probably doesn't realize this is textbook abuse and other adults should be intervening, because Ron is a little dense. So I feel like Molly has only gathered some of it, but also, she's not in a good position to do anything other than wait for something bad to happen. You know what I mean?
Lelia Hilton 22:22
Christina Kann 22:23
It's a bad position to be in. And honestly, if I were in Molly Weasley's position, I would probably misbehave more about it. If a child that I loved was getting abused, I'd go murder somebody.
Or at least break him out every summer.
Lelia Hilton 22:39
Yeah, be like "We know you hate him. We invite Harry to stay with us every summer."
Christina Kann 22:45
Here's the thing: Dumbledore insists that for the love magic, okay to like, carry on--
I hate it.
Christina Kann 22:54
Yeah. Harry has to go home every summer. He has to go be with blood every summer.
Yeah but for how long?
Christina Kann 23:04
Exactly! "Can I just shake her hand and be on my way?" like, Why does he have to be there all summer?
But then he doesn't. Later on, he's there for like two weeks and then he leaves.
Christina Kann 23:17
Yes! Why isn't there some alternative? But it's like, "Oh, we just have to trust Dumbledore because he said this is how it has to go."
Never trust Dumbledore.
Christina Kann 23:32
Absolutely not. I was out of town at a wedding this last weekend, so I was staying at a hotel, and I got cable for the first time in like five years. Obviously, they were doing a Harry Potter marathon, because that's what cable does.
Lelia Hilton 23:49
Christina Kann 23:50
And I was getting ready for this wedding, so I was watching it so half-assedly. And it was books six and seven. And it was so dramatic, so intense. Sean -- bless his heart -- my husband, Sean, was asking me these questions. And I was like, "I certainly don't have the time to get into this right now." He was being like, "Wait, but Snape is really a bad guy. Right? And they they didn't know all along?" And I'm like, "I can't even begin to engage in this philosophical discussion with you. I'm curling my hair."
It depends on how you define a "bad guy."
Christina Kann 24:31
Exactly. That's exactly why I don't casually watch movies six through eight. I either have to watch them the way that I watch Hamilton, with like, my entire soul. Or not at all. I can't just be casually watching the later movies.
Lelia Hilton 24:54
Well, yeah, they're so heavy. I remember I was at the beach with my family. I was at the Outer Banks with my family one year when Deathly Hallows Part One came out. I went to go see that with my cousin who's five years younger than me, and she was like "You guys are so into this Harry Potter! Maybe I'll start!" And she started with Deathly Hallows Part 1. For whatever reason I was like, "Hell yeah! You'll love it!" and on the way there I'm like, "So this is what happens until then."
Christina Kann 25:29
Oh my god! That is simply not the recommended path.
Lelia Hilton 25:32
No. She was like, "Are you crying?" I was like "Yes!"
Christina Kann 25:38
You reminded me -- this is not entirely related -- but you reminded me that I have this traumatic memory of also watching a movie with family at the Outer Banks. I have a pretty lame uncle, and he was like pretty drunk at the Outer Banks while we were watching Catching Fire. It might have been the first time I had ever seen it, or maybe it was my first time since it had been in theaters, but I was very engaged and watching it so intensely, and the whole room was just quiet and watching Catching Fire. Except for my drunk-ass uncle kept being like, "Wait, wait, wait, is that Jennifer Lawrence?" He asked it like 15 times out the movie. "Wait, wait, wait, who? Wait, what is she doing?" Through the whole movie! "Can you just yeah, go drink your Red Stripes somewhere else?"
Christina Kann 26:31
Okay. Wow, where even Where are we? Harry is like skipping happily up to his room. Hedwig is back. She wasn't there in the last chapter. The last chapter had absolutely nothing going on in it, including Hedwig wasn't even there. Pig--Pigwidgeon -- Ooh, I've never said that one a lot before. Pidwidgeon?
That sounds right.
Lelia Hilton 26:59
Yeah. Because they call him Pig, right?
Christina Kann 27:01
Yeah, Pig. That's a really cute name for like a tiny little owl.
Lelia Hilton 27:05
Christina Kann 27:07
A cat named Pig would be really cute.
Lelia Hilton 27:11
But it would have to be a skinny cat because if it was fat then that you would just be like HER??
It would be an evil cat.
Christina Kann 27:23
My adorable chubby cat Penny, I think, would be an adorable Pig.
Lelia Hilton 27:27
She would. She's not like chonk.
Christina Kann 27:30
She's not morbidly obese, but she's definitely a lump if I've ever seen one.
Christina Kann 27:36
Yeah, a little potate.
Christina Kann 27:37
Yeah, a potate. A tater tot. So Pigwidgeon is there with a follow up letter from Ron. I really think they waited a week for a response and they didn't hear one because they hadn't even gotten the letter yet because Muggle mail is slow. So I think he was like, "Well, it's been a while. I might as well send a follow up letter."
But the letter also makes it seem like he wrote that as soon as they got the tickets.
Christina Kann 28:04
Oh, yeah, no, you're right.
I read it and I was like, "How fast is the Muggle mail?" Or maybe it's just how slow Pig is.
Christina Kann 28:13
He tries so hard. I love him. He's one of my favorite characters, I think. I just love people who try so hard. But they're in the country. I feel like Muggle mail couldn't go that fast.
Lelia Hilton 28:28
Yeah, no, absolutely not. That was a little bit of a bloop. A little bit of a blooper. Bloop her.
Christina Kann 28:39
That one was rough, but I laughed heartily at it, so I guess it was good.
Lelia Hilton 28:44
Christina Kann 28:45
So Ron makes it clear that they're planning to come get Harry on Sunday no matter what.
Christina Kann 28:56
There's not a lot going on in this chapter. I'm trying to stretch it out. Well, so this is kidnapped. This is like a planned kidnap.
Is it kidnapping if Harry goes willingly?
Christina Kann 29:10
I think technically yes if his guardians say no.
Well, they said yes. So it's fine.
Christina Kann 29:16
Yes, indeed. It's silly that they don't even mention how they're going to come get him. And also Harry doesn't wonder how they're going to come get them.
Lelia Hilton 29:29
Oh, sorry. I accidentally started reading it again.
Is this the one where they come through the fireplace in the next chapter? That would have been important to know. You probably should have mentioned that.
Christina Kann 29:42
I guess they just like can't fathom a home without an actual ongoing fire in the hearth at all times in case Amos Diggory needs to drop by to talk about Mad-Eye Moody or whatever.
Lelia Hilton 29:55
The Floo Network feels like such a invasion of privacy all the time.
Lelia Hilton 30:00
Yeah, that's fucked up.
It's not like somebody's knocking at your door. They just show up.
Christina Kann 30:06
Yeah, I wonder if there's any security in the Floo Network, if there's anything to be done if you don't wish for visitors. Or can you like block someone?
Lelia Hilton 30:19
I think you would just have to block everyone or have it open for everyone. I think those are your only two options.
So don't make any enemies.
Lelia Hilton 30:28
Yeah, not even one.
Or just don't have friends, if you have an enemy.
Christina Kann 30:35
It just would be such a nightmare in the Weasley household, for example, because they would need to have it on because he has a ministry job. And they have a lot of things going on. They would need to always let people come in. But there's so much going on that someone could just straight come into your home and it might be that no one notices, you know?
Lelia Hilton 30:54
That's the real reason Harry has to stay at the Dursleys', because they don't have working Floo Network, so Voldemort just can't come in and kill Harry in his home.
Christina Kann 31:06
Oh my god. Wait a goddamn second. I mean, like what, in later books, prevents Voldemort from just stepping into the Floo Network and stepping out in your living room and murdering you? And then stepping back into the fireplace? I'm so confused!
Lelia Hilton 31:24
That's a pretty big -- that's a pretty big hole there.
Christina Kann 31:28
Wow. Wow, what do I even do with this information? Voldemort, I got a plan for you. Okay, great. So Ron's like "Yeah, we're coming to get you. Don't even worry about it. Hermione is coming and I invited her first, it's no big deal. Don't read into that." Hermione spends a lot of time at the Weasleys' considering that she is an only child who got like swept away into this world of like magic. I feel like my parents never would have permitted that.
No, not for that amount of time. You don't see her for the entire year, and then she comes home for like two weeks in the summer, and then is like, "I have to go again." And she's lying to them because there's no way she's actually telling them what's happening.
Lelia Hilton 32:21
Yeah. How does that work with Hermione's parents? Do they know she's a wizard? A witch? Sorry.
Christina Kann 32:29
Yes, they do. They I mean, I think you need parental consent -- god, I hope so. But also, we saw her parents in Diagon Alley in Prisoner of Azkaban.
Lelia Hilton 32:41
Christina Kann 32:41
So they definitely know. I think that Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, possibly wined and dined Mr. and Mrs. Granger, and were like, "Hey, our kids are friends. I know this must be hard for you. We're here to answer any questions." I like to think that there's a friendship there that we just don't get to see.
That would be nicer than Hermione doesn't tell them anything that happens at school and just comes up with excuses every summer to leave.
Christina Kann 33:08
Although, there's no way she's telling the truth, because then she'd have to come home and be like, "Oh, yeah, my friend Harry almost died because Voldemort was growing on the back of this guy's head."
Christina Kann 33:19
Oh, THAT truth. Surely she doesn't tell them all that. "Wow, all of my teachers are trying to kill everybody. There was a werewolf."
"I spent like two months petrified."
Lelia Hilton 33:33
Oh, my God. Yeah.
Christina Kann 33:35
Wow, I actually completely forgot about that. And we talked about that a lot at the time, when we covered it on the pod, like, the parents aren't being informed. What if someone else has mandrake potion? Just ready? and we don't even have to wait for the mandrakes to grow?
Lelia Hilton 33:57
Like someone in the ministry.
Christina Kann 33:58
Yeah. Like literally anyone. Maybe they grow in the wild. Whatever. Okay, we can't do this.
Lelia Hilton 34:05
We're past that book.
Christina Kann 34:06
We're reading Ron's letter. Basically, the only other thing Ron says is that Percy has started a job with the Ministry of Magic. And Ron is like, "Please literally don't even mention it because I cannot stand to hear him speak of it."
Lelia Hilton 34:21
Yeah, they're so mean to Percy.
Christina Kann 34:24
Percy is a gigantic prick.
Lelia Hilton 34:27
Yeah, I know.
But they don't help the situation. It was almost inevitable with how they treat him.
Lelia Hilton 34:33
Exactly. How is he not supposed to act like what they project him to be?
He's also the only sibling to not have a partner.
Lelia Hilton 34:41
Yeah, it's so sad.
So he's just like on his own.
Lelia Hilton 34:45
Well, Ginny. Well, she's a girl, so she doesn't count.
But Ginny and Ron are close enough in age that they can hang out together.
Lelia Hilton 34:53
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Christina Kann 34:56
Yeah. Aw, that is a little tragic. But also, be a better friend and maybe you'll have better friends. Whatever happened to Penelope Clearwater? Percy and Penelope Clearwater is like a thing in Chamber of Secrets right because Ginny saw the making out or whatever.
*suggestively* Or whatever.
Christina Kann 35:21
And then in Prisoner of Azkaban, we were wondering on the pod, did he dump Penelope Clearwater so he can focus on being Head Boy and getting all his NEWTs or whatever? But she popped up again. But I think in this book, finally, he has fully ditched her to pursue his career because we don't hear about her again.
Poor Penelope. Maybe she ditched him.
Christina Kann 35:49
Wow, I wonder if Harry Potter dot wiki dot whatever has a career listed for her? Oh my god, I read this wrong. Oh my god. I'm skimming through Penelope Clearwaters' page, and I read it wrong. It says, "Sadly, she did not end up marrying her Hogwarts boyfriend, as Percy eventually married a woman named Audrey and had two children with her." But I read it as "Penelope did not end up marrying Percy because she eventually married a woman named Audrey and had two children with her," and I was like WHAT? RIP, that did not happen. It doesn't have a career listed for her. Oh, well. She surely ditched him.
Lelia Hilton 35:50
I feel like that's more likely.
She's very successful.
Lelia Hilton 36:40
Christina Kann 36:42
Like many a high school relationship ends, she probably was like, "You should grow up a little bit. Call me later when that happens." I think that some of these characters are so serviced by the films. Obviously we've talked at length about how Snape is like -- Alan Rickman does so much for that character. But some characters, the films -- kind of like we were talking about with Harry -- it takes some layers away. And I think Percy was one of those people that the films turned into just like a straight-up caricature. He has next to no lines. He pretty much only matters in the first movie because he's like "First years, this way!" or whatever. And he has such an arc in the books. I wish we could see more of Percy. You know what I want? I want to see Percy hanging out with Bill and Charlie and no one else. Like what is going on there? Because when they go to the Quidditch World Cup, the kids and Arthur go ahead, and Percy, Bill, and Charlie can Apparate so they come later. And what are they talking about while they're hanging out the three of them?
I feel like Percy would be really quiet around them. Because Bill and Charlie are big personality, really cool guys, and then there's Percy.
Christina Kann 38:09
I feel like they're nice to him but maybe a lot for him.
Lelia Hilton 38:15
Or he is a lot for them.
Christina Kann 38:22
I totally agree. I don't think he would act the same way when these two people, I think, more than anyone, see you exactly for what you are. I don't think there's nearly as much bragging and grandiose -- Percy the Prefect. So anyway, he works at the Ministry. Don't mention it. Harry sends his little RSVP back to Ron. And he adds a little addendum to his letter to Sirius Black. He's like, "If you want to contact me, I'll be at Ron's house." Not that -- I mean, these magical birds can find Sirius just like vaguely south, so I'm sure they can find Harry at Ron's house.
I've always wondered about that. How the birds know where to go.
Christina Kann 39:13
I don't know.
Lelia Hilton 39:13
Yeah, I know. Well, even in real life, like how the fuck do carrier pigeons work? What kind of sorcery is that? How big can their brains even be?
Christina Kann 39:25
I don't know. Maybe it's like their number one imperative, you know?
Lelia Hilton 39:29
Yeah, it is crazy -- you already talked about in the last chapter -- that Sirius sent Harry's letter with a tropical bird. Which to me implies that he just like found a nearby bird and was like, "Go! Fly this to my godson!" And the bird is like a *squawk* and like did it.
Christina Kann 39:56
Let's say he's in Brazil. Does he go to a Brazilian wizarding village and seek out a post office? A magical post office? Or does he just like go into the woods and try to convince this toucan--
Do all birds have the ability to carry these letters? Or is it just like magical birds?
Christina Kann 40:23
Or birds of a certain size and intelligence. Not a parakeet, but like, a flamingo? Sure.
Lelia Hilton 40:31
The flamingo -- they did to kind of describe it like a flamingo, right?
Christina Kann 40:35
Lelia Hilton 40:35
That's crazy to me. That is not what I would have thought by "tropical bird."
Christina Kann 40:39
They're not like a good flyer, are they?
I didn't even realize flamingos could fly.
Lelia Hilton 40:45
How funny would it be if they were flightless birds?
I think -- Wait, okay. This is the third time we've had to Google something. Are flamingoes flightless? No. The answer is no, they can fly. I watched a lot of nature documentaries and I've never seen a flamingo fly in those. I've only seen them walk back and forth in the little swamp like idiots. So I'll believe flamingos can fly when I see it.
Lelia Hilton 41:20
So Hedwig is like, "Bye, I know exactly where Sirius Black is. I got this. Don't even worry about it." Didn't she just get there? Hedwig like just rolled up after like days of being missing I think. And then he's like, "Okay, bitch, go."
Lelia Hilton 41:48
To a long journey.
Christina Kann 41:50
Yeah, let her chill overnight or whatever.
Lelia Hilton 41:53
There's no time.
Christina Kann 41:54
There's no time. So then Harry eat some cake. And is like, "I'm a luck, luck, lucky boy." And that's how the chapter ends. Lelia, what was your favorite part of this chapter?
Lelia Hilton 42:10
I thought Mrs. Weasley's letter was very sweet and cute. I loved the bit with the stamps all over it. I thought that was quite delightful. I was like, "Aw, more magic versus Muggle mishaps." We love to see it. Yeah, that's really what stood out to me. What about you, Cari?
I liked when Harry gets the permission to go, and he like walks up to Dudley and he's like, "That was an excellent breakfast, wasn't it?" I love it when Harry sasses Dudley.
Lelia Hilton 42:43
Because Dudley has no brain cells, so he can't even come up with a comeback.
Christina Kann 42:48
Yes. There's that legendary moment -- Oh, man. I forgot the joke though -- I always get myself into these situation. When he's like, something about practicing swirlies on Harry, and then Harry's like, "I'm not sure the toilet has ever had anything as gross as your head in it," or whatever. That's the thing, Harry can be sassy to Dudley and we can come to hate him through that lens rather than you're describing him as a disgusting person.
Lelia Hilton 43:18
Yeah, we can hate him because he's cruel and mean and dumb, versus he's all of those things because he's fat. Almost it kind of seems like that.
Christina Kann 43:31
It just seems like she ran out of descriptors for the Dursleys. And it's just like, "I'll just keep using this whale analogy." And the fact that Vernon Dursley's least face is purple over and over again.
Lelia Hilton 43:43
His "piggy eyes." What the fuck are "piggy eyes"?
Christina Kann 43:46
Luckily, that's something that gets kind of lost in translation in the films because they cast -- I mean, no child -- I've never seen a child in my life that is wider than he is tall, which is how they describe him.
Lelia Hilton 44:00
That's a cartoon character.
Christina Kann 44:01
Yeah, so they had to get a regular, normal-sized boy to play him and I'm glad for that. He's shitty just because he shitty in the movies.
Lelia Hilton 44:11
Yeah, I feel like I've seen that actor in other things recently, and I'm like, "Dudley, what you doing?"
Christina Kann 44:16
He's making a comeback. He's been in some cool shit. He was in The Old Guard. That was such a good movie.
Lelia Hilton 44:21
Christina Kann 44:22
Well, and also The Queen's Gambit.
Lelia Hilton 44:27
That's what I saw him in. Right, right.
Christina Kann 44:29
I mean, he's great. He's great now that he's -- you know, every child actor has to kind of like break free of that role. That one defining role.
Lelia Hilton 44:40
Yeah, some are unable to or you know, may grow up and find that they're not talented. *coughing* EMMA *coughing* But, um, you know, that's just one man's opinion.
Christina Kann 44:52
My favorite part of this chapter was probably reading Ron's letter because I really love Ron. Every time I read the series, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, Ron is great!" And I get really defensive of him because the films do him so dirty. Just imagine Ron. Imagine the kinds of things he's interested in. Imagine him trying to sit down and do homework. But then, imagine him sitting down and lovingly writing a letter to Harry. It makes me so happy. And he's such a little cutie, and his little letter is so cute.
Lelia Hilton 45:29
Yeah, their friendship is developed so nicely, all three of them. Well, not Hermione really. But Harry and Ron are developed so nicely in the books. And they do just kind of make him seem like the joke, I feel like -- like the punch line, a little bit in the movies.
Christina Kann 45:45
Brooke recently shared in our Discord server a really excellent video that broke down -- I mean, I think we all can agree that Ron was done dirty in the movies. But it's such a big issue that it's hard to get into it further than that. They just failed him at every turn. So this video took the time to really break down all the different ways in which the writers insisted on serving the narrative rather than his character. I'll put a link to that in the show notes because it was great. I never watch videos. I hate being shown videos. Don't send them to me. And this was a 35-minute-long YouTube video, but I just watched it, and I was there for every moment of it. #justiceforRon. Okay, cool. Any last thoughts about this chapter before we wrap it on up?
Christina Kann 46:18
I thought the description of Harry's clothes, that were Dudley's clothes -- I had never realized before how big they were on him.
Lelia Hilton 46:50
It had to be folded up five times.
A sweatshirt went all the way down past his knees.
Christina Kann 46:56
That is like so ridiculous to even imagine.
Can't you shrink those with magic? Harry can't because he is underage, but when he goes to the Burrow, can't he be like, "Hey, can you make these fit?"
Christina Kann 47:12
Wow. Yes. And probably Molly Weasley is the kind of person who would just do it for him without -- "Sweetie, come over here. We're gonna fix your clothes. Okay?" Yeah, these little details are cute, but then they never get brought up again. And it's like, "Wait, this doesn't actually track in the greater narrative.
Did you realize that you made a magical system where you can do anything with magic?
Christina Kann 47:36
Exactly. That's why, in our last episode, we were wondering whether or not Sirius Black had a wand at this point. If he has a wand when he's in hiding. Later in the books, he comes back from south from Brazil, and it's not clear if he has a wand. But he is super hungry and desperate and raggedy looking. And he definitely, I think, could have done better with a wand.
Lelia Hilton 48:07
Like, why are you starving on the streets, bro?
Well, even if you had a wand, you can't like transfigure your food. So he would have to steal it.
Christina Kann 48:17
You can like -- what's the word? -- like multiply it? They do it in Deathly Hallows a little bit.
Christina Kann 48:24
So he could like multiply one family's meal, and it's like fine. They get less nutrition in their meal or whatever, for this meal alone. But I get to eat, you know? I think he could have been more creative and done more things if he had a wand.
Christina Kann 48:40
But maybe the only way to get a toucan to deliver -- I mean a flamingo. Flamingo, right, is what we decided?
Lelia Hilton 48:48
Christina Kann 48:49
Is to have a wand and like magic them.
Also, how did he get to wherever he was? Brazil or whatever.
Lelia Hilton 48:59
Yeah, I was thinking that too.
Did he swim?
Christina Kann 49:01
No, he took Buckbeak! Over the ocean!
Lelia Hilton 49:05
That's kind of nuts.
Christina Kann 49:07
I mean, surely, surely, he must have gone up through Greenland and down the coast. There's no way he just sailed straight over the Atlantic. Is there?
I don't think so.
Christina Kann 49:21
We don't know how fast hippogriff can go, I guess.
Lelia Hilton 49:25
Yeah, but that's insane. Like over an ocean? Your bird cannot stop to eat or drink or stop flying.
Christina Kann 49:36
You just gotta like piss off the side of the hippogriff into the ocean.
Lelia Hilton 49:40
It would hit you in the face.
Christina Kann 49:45
Okay, all right, I'm wrapping it up. Let's move on to some plugs. I would love to start our little plug session by plugging our Patreon. This month's bonus episode just dropped this past Saturday, and it covered My Immortal, the legendary Harry Potter fan fiction. That episode was extremely good. I recommend it with my whole heart. So please check out our Patreon, which is linked in the show notes. Cari, where can people find you on the internet?
You can find me on Instagram and Twitter @carissazwerg. You can find me on TikTok @carizwerg. You can check out my podcast, Curly Critics Pod, on all the socials.
Christina Kann 50:37
Hell yeah, I love their show so much. Obviously, I love all of our WBNE -- I call you guys cousins, you know? Like we're doing the same thing, just next to each other. Yeah, Curly Critics is covering Harry Potter right now, and it's such a good time. So I highly recommend it. Do you have something you've been watching, reading, listening to, whatever lately that you think that listeners of our podcast would enjoy?
Yeah, I want to plug the show Lucifer on Netflix. It's a crime show where the devil comes to LA and befriends a detective and they solve crimes together, and then heavenly shenanigans ensue.
Christina Kann 51:21
Lelia Hilton 51:23
That's like, um, what's the David Tenant show?
Christina Kann 51:25
Lelia Hilton 51:26
Yeah, Good Omens.
Christina Kann 51:29
Heavenly shenanigans. Put that on my tombstone.
The last season is coming out September 10.
Christina Kann 51:37
So it came out this past weekend from when this show airs.
Christina Kann 51:43
A little look behind the curtain, guys. We record this in the past. Awesome. Thank you so much. Leila, where can people find you on the internet?
Lelia Hilton 51:54
Hello, I'm Lelia. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter @leelz4realz. You can find me on Sunday nights with some of my friends doing another podcast, which is what I'm going to plug this week! Yay. I am plugging the Movie Night Crew, our network's namesake. It is just me and Tina and a handful of our friends watching films. There's no rhyme or reason. We literally spin a wheel many times, and what it lands on, we watch. And then afterwards, we have a conversation about them. Sometimes we end up roasting the film the entire time, many times we do. It is bawdy and dirty and fun. And it's a great time. Lovingly produced by my husband, whose name is Jason.
Christina Kann 52:55
And he will actually be on next week's episode.
Lelia Hilton 52:58
Oh, yeah. Well dang. Yeah. He puts a lot of care into taking out all of our "like, what, um," and all of our awkward silences.
Christina Kann 53:09
It's just crazy how many times I tell people they can't eat while we're recording. It just happens anyway.
Lelia Hilton 53:16
Like, "You know what I should do right now? Chow down on a sandwich." Anyway, yeah, check us out, if you like this podcast, especially, you may recognize some of your Potter friends and get to hear him in a different type of environment, but also very similar.
Christina Kann 53:34
If you listen to this podcast, and you're like, "Wow, I like it, but it could be a little more chaotic."
Lelia Hilton 53:42
Have we got a show for you!
Christina Kann 53:46
Well, thank you so much for your lovely plug. Not that I'm biased. I've been your host Christina. You can follow me on Instagram @christinathekann. You can follow me on Twitter at @christina_kann. You can follow me on TikTok @sproutsprivatestash. And this week, I would like to recommend Cadence of Hyrule, which is a game for the Nintendo Switch -- maybe other platforms, I don't know -- but definitely the Nintendo Switch. It is a Legend of Zelda universe game that incorporates literally EDM. It's like two of my favorite things. As you're moving around this map, you have to move to the beat. It's extremely fun. My husband, Sean, is a DJ, and we're both Legend of Zelda enthusiasts. It was an extremely fun, not really that hard game. It's not nearly as involved or plot-oriented as other Legend of Zelda games. It's a total Nintendo vibe. I really recommend that. So wow, Lelia, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us today.
Lelia Hilton 54:52
Christina Kann 54:54
And Cari, we are so grateful for you being our special guest today. It was an absolute pleasure to finally meet you and to get to talk about Harry Potter, which we've both been talking about separately a lot lately.
Yeah, it was so much fun to be here.
Christina Kann 55:07
Hell yeah, and I hope we can get you back on for another chapter of Order of the Phoenix.
Yeah, another really long book.
Christina Kann 55:16
Really long and really depressing, so we'll take all the friendship we can get to get through it. Awesome. All right, gang. I gotta go finish reading "Muggle Mail for Beginners" before this book folds itself into a paper airplane and flies away. Bye!
Christina Kann 55:37
The Restricted Section is a member of the Movie Night Crew Network, which features other amazing podcasts such as its namesake, the Movie Night Crew, which is an extra chaotic podcast featuring the gang just shooting the shit about whatever movie they just watched.
All righty. It's Movie Night. Grab your popcorn, grab your coffee. Grab your friend. Grab a cat. And let's go. Who directed this? What year did it come out? Is that that girl from that show? Who wrote this? Where's the cat? Who would you rather bang? Does this pass the Bechdel test? What about the Steve Buscemi test? Does a woman literally speak in this movie? Oh my god, a dog. This reminds me of in Harry Potter, when-- Are we recording? What do the critics say? It's a guilty pleasure. What's your rating? Can you be quiet? Oh my god. Movie Night Crew. It's just like watching movies with your friends and then arguing about it after. Every Sunday wherever you get podcasts.
Christina Kann 56:46
The Restricted Section was created by me, Christina Kann, based on the book series by JK Rowling. All music by Ryan Kann. Logo by Michael Hardison. Support us on patreon.com/therestrictedsection. For as little as $1 a month you can gain access to our Discord community server, which is a really happy place to be, and there are other rewards as well, such as bonus episodes and Zoom happy hour Hangouts. Be sure to follow us on Instagram @restrictedsectionpod, on Twitter @restrictedpod, and on Facebook @restrictedsectionpod. Also, feel free to shoot us an email at firstname.lastname@example.org to share your thoughts, feelings, complaints, conspiracy theories, or even lavish praise.
Lelia Hilton 57:30
*singing* Hello to the listeners, Lelia.